The M62 was also the factory blower on GM's 3800 Series I back in the early '90s. The Series II and subsequent generations used the M90. Go figure.

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Here's where I picked up my O2 sensor flange:


http://www.sv3power.com/store/index....roducts_id=192

 

Yep, now you see why I say the TRD supercharger is SUCH an UTTER waste of money. Just way to dang small. They were going to go with the M90 but the stock injectors could not handle it so they instead went with the MP-62 or something like that.

In stock form it has a ~3.2" pulley IIRC and puts out around ~5-5.5 psi. Power is generally in the ~200whp range with this setup.

I went all the way down to a 2.0 pulley that was spinning it to around 18-19k IIRC, been a few years since I ran the math. It was putting out around ~11-12psi on a cold day and IAT's were scary high without the meth (like 350f+).

Far as going with a larger blower, I looked into it quite heavily but frankly it is a royal PITA and will cost a ton to do unless you hack it together and I am not that kinda guy as a rule.

Then I looked into a turbo and found that even making the kit myself it would be a fraction of the price and performance would be more then a supercharger could hope to touch. So I ditched the idea of supercharging altogether.

Plus about this time I got my MR2 up and running with a nicely matched turbo and realized that lag was something of the past with modern turbo choices. It was a 500+whp turbo but spooled almost unnoticeably slower then stock.

I figured if a 500whp turbo could spool that fast on a 2.0l then a 3.4l V6 would have no problems with it at all (talking sub 2k RPM spool point for a 500whp turbo).

A supercharger can work but for the cost, time and weight involved a turbo can virtually always do it better in my experience. Having watched more then my share of turbo vs supercharger racing videos, the supercharger is always the underdog.

Toyota tunes their engines so the injectors peg open very early. So in my case they were pegged open for sure, not a problem, just not enough fuel. Thats why I was injecting ~1000cc of 100% meth to allow me to make another ~100hp over the stock fuel limits.

Far as tuning, you can not tune stock Toyota ECU's, so it is a piggyback or nothing. With the meth there was no reason for a Piggyback (big part of why I did it) so I just used the meth for tuning the AFR's and the ECU sorted out the rest quite well.

Worked GREAT, the engine and ECU loved it. WAY better then the 7th injector.

 

Ace, I'm not sure how you can call the supercharger a waste of time. In California, it's the only option for smog reasons. It's a factory part, there are no coolant or oil lines to leak or miles of plumbing to reduce throttle response. I do have the URD 7th injector, but even still on the stock pulley it's pretty damned quick and does a great job towing heavy loads. There is no comparison between now and before the supercharger, and it makes one hell of a lot more power than even a brand new $45,000 5th gen 4Runner. How is that a waste?

 

Because it IS a waste of time when compared to a turbo.

I will give you cali as it is silly trying to own a car there, much less a modded one but that is an exception.

It may be a factory part but it is a horribly designed and selected part as I said above. It is simply too small. That size supercharger is meant for engines half the size.

Modern turbos do not use coolant, just oil and oil leans from lines would only be because the install was a hack job.

The myth that intake piping reduces throttle response it just that, a myth. Each meter of piping increase spool time by like a hundredth of a second. The amount of air it takes to pressurize the intake piping is a fraction of the amount of air the engine is moving each second. Plus you can make the piping ultra shot by running it directly from the turbo to the TB, all of about 10 inches if you wanted.

The supercharger on the stock pulley is lucky to be a 15 second truck. Is it a lot faster then stock? Yep. Is it fast at all? Not by a long shot. Even maxed the heck out mine was just in the 14's, thats what your average family car runs now days bone stock.

The fact is that for the same time, money, weight and effort you can have a turbo setup (less in many cases). A basic turbo setup on low boost will blow the supercharger out of the water in every area. Your limiting factor will be the fuel system and transmission, not the power adder.

Get the fuel system setup right and you easily have a ~350whp+ truck, far more then a supercharger could ever hope to make.

 

I guess it all depends on what the OP wants. While a turbo setup might turn a quicker 1/4 mile time than a supercharged truck, I know I can trust my factory setup anytime, anywhere in any situation. If I'm 3,000 miles from home and have a breakdown that I can't figure out, it can be towed to Toyota or any mechanic and repaired; which is very difficult to do with a custom setup. If the OP is cool with that, fine. I'm all-for people doing what they want with their vehicles.

 

If you have the ability to install a custom turbo and you can't figure something out if you break down that's your own fault. You don't install one and call it "good to go" before you get everything straighten out.

 

The m62 was designed to support engines from 2L-4L, so it "technically" can support the 4rnnr motor... BUT the lack of being able to re-tune the pcm kinda makes the whole modding option pointless. secondly, does this factory kit come with an option for intercooling? running smaller pulleys is great and cheap, but if the charged air is much past 160* the detonation factor robs all added power from timing being pulled.
Ace, iirc you commented on your iat2's reaching an excess of 350*. that explains why your SC setup made no power. so why not put together an intake mani that has lamnova coils so you could chill the air? heck if the m62 was the factory blower option why not use larger blowers that bolt up in it's place? (as is the case with the factory blower (m62) that was replaced by my current TVS1320) Superchargers have become vastly more efficient in the last decade too, much higher volumetric efficiency with less heat and less drag on the engine all while moving more air. Even the TVS 1900, a 1.9L, will bolt up to the same IM as the m62. give it a shot!

 

In stock form the supercharger puts out IAT's in the ~200f+ range IIRC. Like I said, it is way undersized and no intercooling option.

In my case they were well in excess of 350f+ without the meth but it was a crude science as I simply pointed an IR gun as the plenum on the dyno and it was reading 300f+, so it was well over that.

You can not swap out the blower sadly. Toyota is not GM, they don't like people messing with the car and make it as hard as possible to do so.

The supercharger is built into the intake manifold and even on the 1st gen SC it is impossible to use another blower in it's place.

The only way to get another blower on there is to go full custom, which like I said is silly since the cost and effort involved would be much much more then a simple turbo setup and offer no advantages at all.

Basically it is like this:

TRD supercharger = mild boost in power to what it should have had stock, roughly ~200-220whp with a smaller pulley before diminishing returns.

Turbo setup = Simple, cost effect method for reaching any power level your heart desires and is able to grow with you. Start out with 250whp and then when you want it, turn up the boost to 350whp. Then later switch turbos and go for 750whp.

 

Calling the TRD blower / M62 an "utter waste" really isn't a fair statement. Not everyone is looking for 1 bazillion horsepower from their light duty SUV or truck. For much less custom work than a turbo, you can have a reliable, boosted setup that is backed by Toyota, and much easier to install. Could it have been better designed? Yeah, that's a no-brainer. But to call it an "utter waste" is foolish, even if you are comparing it to a turbo'd setup. Yes, a turbo is better in the performance department, but to only take that into perspective is very narrow sighted.

You think maybe you want to go back and revise that statement?

 

Ace ... what is your suggestion on a turbo to start out with ?

I'm building another truck , and I just happen to agree with you . But I'm a newb to turbo set ups


.

 

It should be obvious where I stand on the debate. That said, I really love to tinker, and good thing too. Custom turbo is endless tinkering and "redoing". Slacker, a Holset hx35 can be found cheap (I paid $300 for a rebuild unit) and are super reliable as they came stock on Cummins diesels. It starts making boost at about 3,300rpm, which makes for stock manners in town if you want it, but boost comes on quick and hard and pulls like a freight train. Probably get the CXRacing turbo manifold. They seem to be working well. It has a t3 flange, so sky's the limit on turbo choices. My 4runner is a swap in a 95 so a CXRacing manifold woulnd't really work. The exhaust is on the wrong side. My fueling is taken care of my a nice progressive meth kit from Coolingmist. I spray a ton of meth for extra fueling, knock control, charge cooling. A standalone and e85 would probably be better, but that's $$$$$

 

What engine will you be using?

 

I asked this question over on Custom Tacos, but I'll ask it here too since you brought up the point about E85. Instead of using a stand alone to go with the E85, why not just install larger injectors? My thought process is that E85 needs something like 30% more fuel than gas, so install 30% larger fuel injectors to compensate, and I would think the ECU would be happy. You would still be running stoich AFR in closed loop (what the computer would think is 14.7. Stoich for E85 is somewhere around around 9.8 to 10.7), but that should be ok since E85 has much better knock resistance than gas.

As it happens, The green-top 315cc Supra injectors are 29% larger than the stock 245cc injectors, so it seems like they would be a good match. I've got a set of these 315cc injectors, and have been contemplating the idea of installing them while I'm still NA and filling up with E85 just to test this theory out.

I mainly worry about two things:

1.) The E85 killing my stock fuel pump that already has over 268,XXX miles on it. I know some people say it's a myth, but I've seen what ethanol in just 10% concentrations do to small engines, including boat motors.

2.) The 30% increase in fuel flow overrunning what the stock fuel pump can provide, even while the motor is still naturally aspirated. I know for sure I'll have to get a new pump from URD once I install the CX manifolds and my turbo.

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Send those bad boys over to me to test them! I've got a Walbro 255. I like where your head is at. I'm sure somebody will disprove this somehow, but I'm all about trying things out. I've got an AFR gauge so I could monitor stoich.

ninja edit: This might work and would give you 30% more fuel in open loop (WOT). Part throttle boost would be really bad situation though. At least with a meth kit it would come on at a specified boost level, regardless or open or closed loop. You'd just have to avoid closed loop boost all together IMO You maybe couple e85 with a meth kit to account for part throttle boost, but then you've already got the meth kit anyway, so might as well should have just run a larger nozzle in the meth kit. Seems kinda redundant.

edit again: well now that I"m thinking about it, even in closed loop boost, you'd be getting extra fueling. Just 30% more though. How much boost can you run with only 30% more fueling? Seriously asking, I have no idea. In theory this might work? Real world test needed... I'll give you my address to send those injectors

 

I stand by my statement. Due to the TRD kits getting rarer prices are going up, last I looked you are looking at ~$2500+ for a setup once all is said and done, more in many cases with rebuilds ect.

For that price you can buy a second truck for tow duties, or a car for speed duties. Both of whcih would be a better use for the funds.

Or for ~$1500 you can get a turbo setup that works better in all departments.

So yes, I consider the TRD supercharger a waste of money when compared to other options.

Now ~5 years ago before a turbo setup was as easy as it is now, yeah it was not such a bad option. But now days there are better ones.

Nope.

PTE, Borg warner, and most others are oil cooled only now days. Better materials and ceramic bearings have made coolant unneeded.

I know of what I speak.

 

Well this depends on goals. Matching the turbo to the goals is the most important item in a good turbo build.

In the case of the 5vz you are looking at around ~400whp being a good safe limits before you need to start looking at internals. So no reason to get a turbo larger then that.

So with that in mind a turbo in the 52mm compressor inducer and something around 57-58mm Turbine exducer would be a good match IMO. Should be able to make around 400whp without pushing it too hard but spool around ~2k if I took a guess. A great turbo would be the S252. 500whp+ capable turbo that should spool around 2k.

I would use the CX racing manifold as it is the simplest option for sure.

While the HX35 is an ok turbo, it is honestly much larger then is needed for the power the stock engine can really take IMO. A smaller turbo will spool significantly faster and still make the power, be it with a bit more boost.

The turbo the CX kit comes with would also work, it is basically the same size as an HX35 (GT35). My guess is it will spool a tad below 3k depending on the quality and exact specs on the turbo.

I am a BIG fan of using the meth kit with 100% meth to take care of tuning to around 300-350whp where it will become a bit impractical for most. so A+ there.

Regardless I think a meth kit with a small nozzle is virtually a must with our trucks to keep the ECU happy, otherwise it freaks out and pulls all timing.

Like I said on CT, it will work fine and is a great option but will leave you with the same HP limits as the stock injectors. So you will just be gaining the extra octane, which is great.

On boat motors and the like they sit for a long time between running, this can cause issues and you said small engines, a lot of them are 2 strokes which play by a bit different rules.

I know of tons of guys running E85 on bone stock fuel systems on older cars them ours and not a single issue for years. It is really a non-issue on cars made in the 90's or later.

The fuel pump should be fine, Speedy was using the stock fuel pump with the 7th injector making around ~250whp, while it was basically maxed out at that point it gives you an idea how much flow it has. You should be fine.

The larger injectors would work fine in this case. While they are 30% larger, E85 takes 25-30% more fuel then gas. So it would balance out very nice.

MR2 gues do this a fair amount, install 30% larger injectors and then run E85, everything works great, just stuck to the same HP limits at the stock injectors.

Far as the ECU is concerned nothing would change, the knock threshhold would just be a lot higher. AFR's would remain the same and the minor changes the ECU would learn around.

Got to remember that a wideband only reads Lambda. We then apply correction factors to that in order to get AFR for a specific fuel. The ECU on the other hand could care less about all of that, it just cares about the Lamda value. This is the same for all fuels.

 

Dang, that's right, while 30% more, it's still equivalent to stock injector HP max. I knew I wasn't thinking about that clearly. So you'd still need to run additional fueling, preferably with meth, so you'd have redundant system. Just run a large injector meth system.

 

More or less. If E85 is easy to access locally then it is a good option as E85 > gas all day.

If E85 is not all around you though, then yeah, just sticking to gas is easier and then buy a barrel of meth to take care of the rest.

 

Thanks Ace ... sounds good .
I'm building a /86 Toyota 4X4 with a 5Vzfe swap . I already have a /83 Trekker with the S/C 3.4L .
I am a manufacture , and I already build "swap headers" (L/H dump) for the 3.4L , so I will just build my own .