Texas_Ace

Install was not finished, if you look at the back of the manifold it is not connected to the crossover pipe yet.

UKrunner

Oh I completely realize the risks involved with such an expensive turbo. For $130 I can replace it again

I get it, trust me. The thinking is to actually use the kit and replace the turbo with something better after the kit has been evaluated. I consider the turbo as a throw away item.

Greg_Canada

You don't visualize shards of the compressor wheel inside an engine like i do?

Texas_Ace

Not really, it happens but if you get some of the better ebay turbos it is unlikely unless you are really pushing it (which you won't be unless you go way too small of a turbo or try to make more power then the transmission can handle). Most failures are bearing related.

Should the compressor give out the intercooler will generally catch all the big parts.

That can also be taken care of if you are really worried by simply putting some wire mesh in the intake piping to catch anything that might come through. They may even make pre-made items for this now days.

x2468

Addicted Off-road posted theirs. Looks pretty similar.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st...ml#post7374952

Texas_Ace

I would not doubt they use the same manifolds with a better turbo and fixing any other issues there may be.

Zpd426

Im no expert but I know a guy who built his own turbo kit for the 3.4 and has a lot of problems... Computer and fuel mixture is causing issues and hes only getting about 10 more horse power than the supercharger setup.

My thoughts are that tuning a dual charger set up will be a complete nightmare and waste of money. I think the money is better spent maximizing a single charger set up.

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

turbo or sc, you're very limited by the factory ecu. It will always try to lean out in closed loop and is made to run the motor for efficiency and safety. I plan to go aftermarket ecu.

Zpd426

What aftermarket ECU has been working for everyone?

Robb235

How much boost is your buddy trying to run? My next question is, where did he place the MAF?

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Texas_Ace

It is not the turbos fault, it is the ECU's/setups fault if he is having issues.

Like was pointed out the stock ECU doesn't play that great with extra power. The injectors quickly max out and the ECU just plain doesn't know what to do with the fueling.

Now it does do a pretty good job on the ignition side and controlling knock.

For ANY kind of boost you much have some kind of ECU mods. Be it piggyback (not the ideal setup but works), extreme meth injection (can be made to work very well if you know what you are doing, if not stick to other options), or the best option is a full standalone.

Zpd426

I don't know everything about his setup. I know he has the injector kit and has ecu work done.I know he also has some other sort of computer with a digital read out in there that he can use to adjust stuff.

He has a nice turbo he got built for it. I dunno how much boost he's running.

I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff yet just from talking to him a lot I know its a lot of work to get it right. Running two systems sounds like a disaster.

Texas_Ace

Well actually getting it to work is easy. Getting it to work cheaply is hard. Which this new kit opens the window for it at least being possible.

If he wanted it to work without worry of budget then get a standalone ECU and a proper tune. That would fix all the electronic issues in 1 move and be WAY better too boot.

If enough people start using this kit MSPNP can make a plug and play box with a 20 person group buy. Don't see that happening for some time sadly.

If only we could tune the stock ECU's on toyotas like every other car on the market.....

Jomoka

If you look at a wiring diagram for a Megasquirt, and a wiring diagram for the Toyota ECU, you could probably whip up a passable PnP harness yourself (using a sacrificial junkyard ECU for the plug). MS just needs a lot less input than the factory ECU does.

It just wouldn't pass muster in any emissions controlled areas (no ODBII support).

I've been doing MS for a long while on my turbo Volvo - started out with an MS1 V2.2, now I have an MS3X doing sequential injection, boost control, dual fuel (E85 and gas), coil on plug ignition, etc. There's a bit of a learning curve, but really, you don't want something like MS on the car if you don't understand it.

Texas_Ace

Oh you can easily wire in a standalone DIY. The issue is most are too lazy to do this.

Personally I plan to use a proEFI for my build as it will do everything I could dream of any more. Electronics will not be a limiting factor once I get that taken care of.

wiring it in will be just a matter of figuring out the wiring diagram although I might go custom harness as I might feel like cleaning up the engine bay some.

Dirt Driver

You will end up with a lot more boost than you think. I'll explain below.

The pressure ratios multiply rather than add.

For ease of round numbers, lets suppose a supercharger is working at a 2:1 pressure ratio (14.7psi). Now suppose a turbo is doing the same thing, but sending that compressed air into the supercharger. Now you have a 2:1 multiplication happening twice for 2 × 2 = 4:1... the absolute pressure in the manifold will be 4 × 14.7 = 58.8psia. To get what your boost gauge would show, just subtract 14.7 to get 44.1psig of boost.

The pressure differential across the blower is still important. Instead of 14.7psi when it was working alone, now the differential is 29.4psi and it will absorb a proportional amount of power from the crank to do it assuming it is mechanically able to.

As far as getting the sizing right, it's not that complicated IMO. The supercharged engine is simply treated as if it were a larger, more powerful naturally-aspirated one and size the turbo accordingly. Making the boost do what you want is another matter.

The only legitimate performance reason I know of for twincharging is to get the off-idle boost of a roots blower with the top-end power of a turbo.

That's because it's Chinese junk. CX Racing is another one of those fronts like XS Power and SS Autochrome for direct-from-China counterfeit performance parts. XS Power started out selling rotten Chinese turbos that had the compressor housings glued together.

That's because it is poorly-translated Chinese. There are tons of Chinese nationals here in CA and it's conveniently located around the Port of Long Beach.

That's a nice turbo, but I would think the turbine is on the small side for a 3.4L, even in a remote mount. The 9cm HY35 is frequently used on 1.8-2.5L engines in the 400hp+ range and the turbine drive pressure is usually pretty high.

You know, the more I use MegaSquirt ECUs, the more I imagine how much nicer a real, polished $2,000 standalone must be. The MSPNP is probably the closest the MS Project has come to being polished, but it still needs tweaks to "unlock" all the features. Which leads me to the next part...

Seriously.

Anyone have a good high-res photo of the inside of a Tacoma ECU? I can't help but wonder if a daughter board could be made for them like so many others. I found programming mods for Geo Tracker ECUs for cryin' out loud.

Texas_Ace

Correct, I just didn't feel like explaining how the compound boost worked. I was holping for the low end of the supercharger and the top end of the turbo but when researching that seems impossible without a clutched supercharger pulley. Even then it is very hard.

Sizing the supercharger/turbo is not hard but since we are stuck with the TRD unit we are well stuck with it. It is not even good for the 3.4 in stock form much less with a turbo on it as well.

Megasquirt is a great budget option, it works and does all the basics you need to run an engine on a budget. Past that it leaves a lot to be desired IMO. Proper ECU's literally are the sky is the limit when setting them up. Tons of options. The feature lists sums it up pretty good but it doesn't show the refining of some of the softwares ect.

I would run a MS on a budget but given the chice I will get a brand name unit every time. proEFI is the big dog for features right now. Do basically anything you can dream of. Motec for normal people almost. Vipec is another very good one, made by some old motec engineers IIRC.

You can put a daughter board on some of the toyota ECU's but with very limited adjustablity to the point it usually doesn't make sense. Better off just getting a standalone.

For example, rom tune MR2 ECU = $600-800
MSPNP for the same car = $825

Dirt Driver

I didn't mean to sound like you didn't know. I just figured I would explain it anyway for those that don't.

There is also the option of a blower bypass valve controlled with a pressure actuator.

I think that's another vote for a blower bypass. It would take all that load off the supercharger. I know the TRD's belt isn't that wide and smaller pulleys only make belt slip worse.

I won't argue with anyone that MS is the choice for cost-per-feature; that's why I got one to begin with, followed by three more. Now that I have had my hands on MS1 and MS2 processors and pcb v2.2 and 3.0, I just think they try to do too many things too cheaply. That, and there appears to be no document control regarding instructions. They are actually more convoluted now than six to seven years ago.

I was wrong about the MSPNP; the MS3-Pro is a genuinely polished MegaSquirt standalone. It's also getting into standalone price territory at $1200 with the basic harness and does not include a MAP sensor.

Chipping a stock ECU may not seem cost effective, but it essentially maintains factory hardware reliability, appearance, and for those of us under Big Brother's thumb, emission controls and OBDII fault reporting.

Open question: If somebody already has one, what's to keep anyone from putting a larger injector in the URD extra injector kits?

Texas_Ace

I considered a by-pass as well and once again gets back to the stuck with the TRD supercharger and changing being WAY more expensive then it is worth. Using a bypass with these supercharger would take a lot of custom work and end up costing almost as much as upgrading to a much better supercharger in the first place. The 3.4 really needed the M90 instead of the M62 to start with.

I forget right now but there was another issue with the bypass that made it less then ideal. It was a few years ago I looked into all these details afterall lol. I knon I ended up tossing that option out along with everything else.

In the end I figure if for some reason spool is not good enough (unlikely with a properly matched turbo on a V6) I can put a small shot of nitrous on it and just use it to spool the turbo. Would last a few hundred pulls per tank and be the best option for both budget and performance.

The MS2-pro is a nice unit but like you said starts getting to the same price point as other standalones of that caliber with less features/less refined features then a lot of them.

Megasquirt has a bit of a "why should we add that?" instead of a "why shouldn't we add that" mentality that other options have.

For example on another board they were defending the low res fuel/ignition tables in the MSPNP saying they work fine when it was clearly laid out that more would be better. This is pretty basic to me and having too many is never a bad thing. You can always just delete/not use extra resolution but can't add it in. Just an example.

You could indeed put a larger injector in the URD kit, the issue would be controlling it. The injector it comes with already has a really small tuning window (not helped at all by the piggyback they use, can't stand it myself). So going to a larger injector would further reduce that.

I would use an AEM FIC if I was stuck on piggyback options. MUCH better control and features list, just got to get it to read the sensors properly. It can also run extra injectors or simply control the normal injectors allowing for you to upgrade them without the normal issues of doing this with piggybacks that just manipulate the MAF readings.

Robb235

After thinking about this for a while, I'm going to pass on CXRacing turbo manifolds.

One of the reasons I went to Toyota was for reliability. I've been Googling, and I've heard of too many issues with these cheap manifolds cracking, and poor customer support from CXRacing. I don't want to take that risk.

I think I'll either go back to the mid-mount idea, or copy cat Clownmeat's rear mount setup.

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