Texas_Ace

Which is why I said all that matters is MASS Airflow. Of which boost is but a small part.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to calculate an engines power output from boost alone. My MR2 being a perfect example of both this and the prior post.

You talk about the stock 3sgte at 11psi, well at 11psi with my turbo that same stock 3sgte was making ~270-280whp on my car.

My point was that using a boost number to try to figure out the power output of an engine alone is silly and futile. It 100% is.

If you have the other parts of the puzzle then you can make an educated guess but boost is still a small part of the equation.

Now once you have a given setup that is documented to make a set amount of power at a given boost, then you can be reasonably accurate at calculating what it should make with more boost on the same setup but even this has it's limits.

donomite49

this is gettin better and better..

But all its doing is makin me rethink installing my supercharger and go with the tried and proven 300 hp or spend more money, go turbo and go after more hp.
It will take more custom fab to install on my 3.4 swapped 2nd gen pu.


I have to think about reliability longevity and the best bang for the buck.

Texas_Ace

300hp? I assume you are talking crank HP and not WHP? Generally 220-250whp is more the norm for the supercharger without a lot of other mods.

donomite49

That is correct, the most hp I have seen a 3.4 onYT is trd olman with a dyno showing right at three at the wheels.
Most everyone else I have seen are right around the middle two's at the wheels.

I am wondering what kind of "safe" hp you could pull with a proper turbo setup.

donomite49

TA have you seen these #s
http://www.customtacos.com/gallery2/...Mods_List3.JPG

much less justify these numbers from the "regular" sc mods.he is pullin more than fifty more than almost every one else.

here is the thread this came from.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/v...yno-run-48934/

Texas_Ace

I didn't see where he states what dyno he was using. Unless it was a dynojet the numbers are useless for comparison. Load bearing dynos can be made to read whatever you darn well please.

A properly setup turbo would allow you to easily max out the transmission/engine if you had the fueling mods to support it.

My planned turbo would be able to support 900whp+ for example.

On a more practical level, running pump gas with proper tuning you should be able to max the auto transmission without much trouble (I figure this will happen around ~400whp). Some meth injection added in and it would do that piece of cake.

Zealous

After reading this thread, I will never buy another Toyota (until they change the ECU to allow tuning), and I just don't have any loyalty to TRD or Toyota. Don't get me wrong I love my T4R, but the fact that Toyota is virtually the only make that you can't directly tune the ECU just pisses me off.

I love the design and handling of my truck, but without the adaptability of the computer, design and handling mean little. If I would have know this before I bought my supercharged 4Runner, I wouldn't have bought it.

There must be a way to just pull out the motherboard and replace it with another. If there isn't one on the market I'm sure we could group together and pool our money and fund a company to make one for us. Say like 20-30 of us. What do you guys say?

Zealous

What are the options with aftermarket ECU's?


Have you found out anything about this?


Unfrickin' believable. This changes my whole outlook on TRD and the Toyota brand. Well, when I found out that TRD didn't even engineer or produce the 3.4 supercharger, that did it for me and TRD.

I haven't looked yet, but there has got to be some kind of affordable drop in motherboard where we could just ditch the ECU altogether, no?


I hear a lot of people say this, but in a lot of places, like Arizona, and I believe California as well unless it has changed there, only the big cities require you to have emissions. Where I live in the country here in Arizona, there are no emissions, but down in Phoenix and Tucson there is, so for many people it wouldn't be an issue. A lot of people from the cities will get registered in the mountains to avoid it but I'm sure you know that already.


Are you saying there are no affordable replacements to Toyota ECU's? Like, doesn't anyone make an affordable little motherboard thing that just replaces the Toyota one?


So there are aftermarket ECU's? and they're expensive? How much? My supercharger runs like crap.

Texas_Ace

At this moment the only standalone options are universal units that you wire in. They work but cost a lot.

DIYAutotune will make a plug and play ECU for our trucks with a GB of 20 people but that won't happen for some time I have a feeling. Everyone is happy with the 7th injector it seems and it works ok for the basic supercharged setup.

Zealous

What do you mean wire in? You don't just drop in the stock ECU?

How much do they cost, and where can I find one? My supercharger runs like steaming crap and if what I've learned so far is right it's mostly because of the ECU. So, cost, and where, Please?


[/QUOTE] DIYAutotune will make a plug and play ECU for our trucks with a GB of 20 people but that won't happen for some time I have a feeling. Everyone is happy with the 7th injector it seems and it works ok for the basic supercharged setup.[/QUOTE]

Well I'm not happy, I don't think you're happy, and it seems most the people on the supercharger forums aren't happy. Why don't we at least try. There are 20 people in America who would pitch in and I'm one of them. Why don't you or one of the guys start a thread around the forums to get this thing going?

Thank you TA for your responses.

Dirt Driver

You need to do some research of your own to get an idea of what's out there and how to hook it up. Standalones aren't usually plug 'n' play because there are so many vehicle variations even in the same make.

Why? Most car manufacturers don't. Domestic manufacturers' blowers have typically been made by Eaton. Lots of Japanese OEMs contract out to Aisin for blowers(and 4wd hubs A/C compressors, etc). Most Japanese OEMs don't make their own turbos either. Toyota is the only one that did without having a manufacturing branch to pull parts from like the Mitsubishi group.

What's your idea of affordable?

CA's smog check regulations are left to the individual counties. Only a handful of the smaller and/or less populous counties don't require biannual smog checks, instead requiring one only upon ownership change. It's been that way for decades. Only '75 and earlier gasoline vehicles are exempt, '97 and earlier diesels, and vehicles over 14,000lbs GVWR.

How much do you want to spend? You could spend $40,000 on a high-level MoTec system or $400 give or take on a MegaSquirt.

Texas_Ace

DIYAutotune will make a plug and play ECU for our trucks with a GB of 20 people but that won't happen for some time I have a feeling. Everyone is happy with the 7th injector it seems and it works ok for the basic supercharged setup.[/QUOTE]

Well I'm not happy, I don't think you're happy, and it seems most the people on the supercharger forums aren't happy. Why don't we at least try. There are 20 people in America who would pitch in and I'm one of them. Why don't you or one of the guys start a thread around the forums to get this thing going?

Thank you TA for your responses.[/QUOTE]

I mean you have to wire it in manual, there are no plug and play options for the 4runner. Now you can sorta make it plug and play with an adapter harness but still got to tune it from scratch.

There are all sorts of options, Vipec, Haltech, ProEFI, Megasquirt and many more. Prices depend on what you get.

This option works but you will lose OBDII with most of them and it costs quite a bit of both time and money.

Far as a GB, you have not been around long. the chances of getting 20+ guys to spend $800+ on a standalone around here at the same time is virtually zero. Sad but true. Once more guys start going turbo and moving past what the stock ECU can work with, that might change.

Right now the best options besides a full standalone is something like an AEM FIC. Takes some work to get it setup but once working you can control fueling like a standalone and do basically everything except advance timing.

While not idea it is the best option short of a standalone. Also not too bad on the wallet compared.

Robb235

Correct me if I'm mistaken... but there isn't anything special about the Toyota ECU. It's the fact that none of the aftermarket companies have developed any software to tune our trucks. Am I wrong?

Texas_Ace

Many have tried to tune the stock ECU, many have failed.

The problem is they encrypt the heck out of it. The only way around this in all the cases I have seen is to install a secondary motherboard in the ECU to bypass said encryption.

The issue here is that board costs almost as much as a standalone and thus renders it pointless since you still get a fraction of the tunability as most other ECU's.

Now days they don't waste their time trying, just not worth it. Better off going standalone.

This is in stark contrast to basically every other car which is a simple off the shelf OBD flash away from full tuneability on par with and in some ways better then some standalones.

Zealous

I'm learning here.

I think between $300 and $800 is reasonable for an ECU...no more than a fancy new tablet computer.

Um...less than $1000 sounds about right.

Texas_Ace

Cheapest you will get a standalone for excluding a DIY megasquirt kit is $800-$1000. If you want cheaper then the AEM FIC is what you should be looking at. They can be had for under $400.

Robb235

Not that I don't believe you, TA, but can you please post links or something to backup your encryption theory?

Sent from my iPhone using YotaTech

Texas_Ace

Don't have any right now but there are many projects on various toyota cars over the years you can look up. Particularly the Supra, MR2 and celica.

In each case they were able to make the ECU tunable but like I said it needed a daughter board to be done and even after all that the tunability of the ECU was severely lacking compared to even the most basic standalone. So thus you don't see these options floating around much.

The MR2 actually does have a rom tune daughter board floating available. The problem is the stock ECU handles ~275whp fine and the rom tune only extends that to around ~350whp before you overrun even it's abilities to reliably control the engine (debatable even at that power level).

If it was simply making the software the deep pocketed supra crowd would have succeeded in that many many years ago. They tried many times but simply not worth it.

Robb235

Time to get this discussion going again.

I went to order the manifolds and downpipe this week, but they're out of stock. I called CXRacing's sales line to see when they'd get more. At least two weeks the guy said. While we were on the phone, I mentioned putting the manifolds on a 4Runner, even though they were marketed for the Tacoma. The guy says it won't work. He says there are clearance issues. He didn't know anything else beyond that. He referred me to his tech department and advised that I e-mail a guy named Ace. So I shot him an e-mail asking about using the manifolds and downpipe on a 4Runner. I'll post the response when I get it.

In the mean time, why would the manifolds & downpipe work on the Taco but not the 4Runner? Aren't the engine bays of the two vehicles the same?

Sent from my iPhone using YotaTech

Texas_Ace

I have also wondered why they work on the taco but not 4runners. The same thing was said about a kit that was made many years ago in low numbers.