ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
#2062
I'm SOOOOOO FREAKING happy for you chef! glad you got to the bottom of this mess!
and just so you know, .020" = 0.50mm metric pistons are sometimes talked about in both sizes but domestics are always in inches.
and just so you know, .020" = 0.50mm metric pistons are sometimes talked about in both sizes but domestics are always in inches.
#2063
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ
Hey Guys, ...thanks alot for stopping by. It's been a lil stressful and a bit infuriating at times, lol. Of course, ....time will tell, hopefully this will close the clinch and TAP OUT THIS TICK/MISS/TERRIBLE MILEAGE! hehehe.
Yeah, thanks, Truckman... i was reminded of that, today, by the machinist, haha. I've seen them printed both ways, ....but it just didn't cross my mind. I've had a few Big Blocks bored .40 over, etc., ...so it just threw me, lol.
The machinist said I could probably leave the taste of carbon on there and just grab the loose stuff with a powerful vac, etc. Pack the ring with moly@ the top and then scrape it up with a brass brush, then wipe all the crap away with the grease after getting the majority off. But he said, "it wont hurt anything, really, and it's supposed to be covered by now, ...... we actually are really leery of clean spots near the edge, as that's usually oil passing the rings and 'washing' the piston in that area. HG leaks do the same thing. But, I understand if you wanna clean em up a lil bit, ...that build up in 4500miles is DEFINITELY a bit excessive(due to the guides)..But, just be CAREFUL not to shoot any of that crap into the jackets, etc. LOTSA LIL NO-NO HOLES on top of that block, where you do NOT want ANY debris, k? Better for it to jump out the exhaust valves and take a ride to the CAT than wind up in a water jacket or oil galley, right?".... So I'm thinking that over, hahaha. Also, he said, "I saw no tracing at all, so you DID really do a good job when swapping out that cam w/out pulling the head and replacing the HG.... It's not uncommon for it to go well, ...but neither is it uncommon to go FUBAR!" lol. Anyway,....... time for some more thinking.............because.........
I'm trying to see if I can find the time to slap in the Diff's while I'm waiting the head to be done. Realistically, I probably wont get that head finished till next week, early on. Have to wait for the set of NEW valves, I and E, to arrive on either Sat. or Monday(Lord willing and the creek don't rise! lol)... and honestly? ....I'M NOT GOING TO RUSH THIS, ...I REFUSE! Also, having the diff out up front will leave it WIDE OPEN for me to do the pan one more time, ya know? Just curious...................>>>>>>>>>>> I will search, I PROMISE, ...but if anyone reading this(ROB? Lol) could tell me how to do the diffs(actually, I just need a TRUSTWORTHY spot with FULL instructions on doing it, plus shortcuts, etc.), so I was just wondering if anyone HAS a spot they trust for that info, ..or maybe has done it? lol. Never pulled an IFS Diff, completely. Although, ...I have changed CV's w/OUT removing them, hahaha. Hmmmmmm....oh forget it, I give up! ahhahahahaa
Yeah, thanks, Truckman... i was reminded of that, today, by the machinist, haha. I've seen them printed both ways, ....but it just didn't cross my mind. I've had a few Big Blocks bored .40 over, etc., ...so it just threw me, lol.
The machinist said I could probably leave the taste of carbon on there and just grab the loose stuff with a powerful vac, etc. Pack the ring with moly@ the top and then scrape it up with a brass brush, then wipe all the crap away with the grease after getting the majority off. But he said, "it wont hurt anything, really, and it's supposed to be covered by now, ...... we actually are really leery of clean spots near the edge, as that's usually oil passing the rings and 'washing' the piston in that area. HG leaks do the same thing. But, I understand if you wanna clean em up a lil bit, ...that build up in 4500miles is DEFINITELY a bit excessive(due to the guides)..But, just be CAREFUL not to shoot any of that crap into the jackets, etc. LOTSA LIL NO-NO HOLES on top of that block, where you do NOT want ANY debris, k? Better for it to jump out the exhaust valves and take a ride to the CAT than wind up in a water jacket or oil galley, right?".... So I'm thinking that over, hahaha. Also, he said, "I saw no tracing at all, so you DID really do a good job when swapping out that cam w/out pulling the head and replacing the HG.... It's not uncommon for it to go well, ...but neither is it uncommon to go FUBAR!" lol. Anyway,....... time for some more thinking.............because.........
I'm trying to see if I can find the time to slap in the Diff's while I'm waiting the head to be done. Realistically, I probably wont get that head finished till next week, early on. Have to wait for the set of NEW valves, I and E, to arrive on either Sat. or Monday(Lord willing and the creek don't rise! lol)... and honestly? ....I'M NOT GOING TO RUSH THIS, ...I REFUSE! Also, having the diff out up front will leave it WIDE OPEN for me to do the pan one more time, ya know? Just curious...................>>>>>>>>>>> I will search, I PROMISE, ...but if anyone reading this(ROB? Lol) could tell me how to do the diffs(actually, I just need a TRUSTWORTHY spot with FULL instructions on doing it, plus shortcuts, etc.), so I was just wondering if anyone HAS a spot they trust for that info, ..or maybe has done it? lol. Never pulled an IFS Diff, completely. Although, ...I have changed CV's w/OUT removing them, hahaha. Hmmmmmm....oh forget it, I give up! ahhahahahaa
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; May 4, 2011 at 11:18 PM.
#2065
Chef not only what the machinist said, but I'd be willing to be that's where your valve train noise was coming from and why those adjusters wore out so quickly, (if the guy even replaced them).
This is one of those reasons (not that I didn't trust my machinist) that I just ended up getting a new head from EB. By the time I would have been done paying for the valve job, head assembly etc etc I was close to the cost of EB's head.
Glad ya got it all figured out.
This is one of those reasons (not that I didn't trust my machinist) that I just ended up getting a new head from EB. By the time I would have been done paying for the valve job, head assembly etc etc I was close to the cost of EB's head.
Glad ya got it all figured out.
#2068
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ
THANKS, Guys, ...... I sure hope it's the solution to all the drama I've been having... I'm guessing it was a HUGE part, either way.
Couple questions.....
1. Any suggestions on the best way to clean up my block-top, where I've removed the HG?
2. Should I just clean off the MAJOR gasket-metallic stuff, or clean it spotless down to the block?(I ordered an OEM HG from Putney's.... so wanting to do it right, but I'm just not sure if after 4500 Miles and having had no leakage, etc., I need to have the block SHINY spotless, ...eh? lol)
I found this on the IFS Diff Removal.....
http://gearinstalls.com/ifs.htm
Anything there on install? I'ma RE DO, again, the OIL PAN, while the 4.10's are out, btw.
Looking into making CERTAIN that my BRAND NEW Harmonic doesn't have any nasty burrs in it or something that would cause it to be leaking, ....ALREADY, from the front main. I'm guessing it's mainly because I've had it off 3 TIMES! lol. Want to probably put in my OEM Front main(14th Update), ....but now I'm wondering, ...since this Harmonic is brand new, ..... if that's even necessary/good thinking. ??????? lol. Truckman? You might have something on this one? lol.
I have more to share, but I'm on the run again, .... bbsoon!
Couple questions.....
1. Any suggestions on the best way to clean up my block-top, where I've removed the HG?
2. Should I just clean off the MAJOR gasket-metallic stuff, or clean it spotless down to the block?(I ordered an OEM HG from Putney's.... so wanting to do it right, but I'm just not sure if after 4500 Miles and having had no leakage, etc., I need to have the block SHINY spotless, ...eh? lol)
I found this on the IFS Diff Removal.....
http://gearinstalls.com/ifs.htm
Anything there on install? I'ma RE DO, again, the OIL PAN, while the 4.10's are out, btw.
Looking into making CERTAIN that my BRAND NEW Harmonic doesn't have any nasty burrs in it or something that would cause it to be leaking, ....ALREADY, from the front main. I'm guessing it's mainly because I've had it off 3 TIMES! lol. Want to probably put in my OEM Front main(14th Update), ....but now I'm wondering, ...since this Harmonic is brand new, ..... if that's even necessary/good thinking. ??????? lol. Truckman? You might have something on this one? lol.
I have more to share, but I'm on the run again, .... bbsoon!
#2069
THANKS, Guys, ...... I sure hope it's the solution to all the drama I've been having... I'm guessing it was a HUGE part, either way.
Couple questions.....
1. Any suggestions on the best way to clean up my block-top, where I've removed the HG?
2. Should I just clean off the MAJOR gasket-metallic stuff, or clean it spotless down to the block?(I ordered an OEM HG from Putney's.... so wanting to do it right, but I'm just not sure if after 4500 Miles and having had no leakage, etc., I need to have the block SHINY spotless, ...eh? lol)
I found this on the IFS Diff Removal.....
http://gearinstalls.com/ifs.htm
Anything there on install? I'ma RE DO, again, the OIL PAN, while the 4.10's are out, btw.
Looking into making CERTAIN that my BRAND NEW Harmonic doesn't have any nasty burrs in it or something that would cause it to be leaking, ....ALREADY, from the front main. I'm guessing it's mainly because I've had it off 3 TIMES! lol. Want to probably put in my OEM Front main(14th Update), ....but now I'm wondering, ...since this Harmonic is brand new, ..... if that's even necessary/good thinking. ??????? lol. Truckman? You might have something on this one? lol.
I have more to share, but I'm on the run again, .... bbsoon!
Couple questions.....
1. Any suggestions on the best way to clean up my block-top, where I've removed the HG?
2. Should I just clean off the MAJOR gasket-metallic stuff, or clean it spotless down to the block?(I ordered an OEM HG from Putney's.... so wanting to do it right, but I'm just not sure if after 4500 Miles and having had no leakage, etc., I need to have the block SHINY spotless, ...eh? lol)
I found this on the IFS Diff Removal.....
http://gearinstalls.com/ifs.htm
Anything there on install? I'ma RE DO, again, the OIL PAN, while the 4.10's are out, btw.
Looking into making CERTAIN that my BRAND NEW Harmonic doesn't have any nasty burrs in it or something that would cause it to be leaking, ....ALREADY, from the front main. I'm guessing it's mainly because I've had it off 3 TIMES! lol. Want to probably put in my OEM Front main(14th Update), ....but now I'm wondering, ...since this Harmonic is brand new, ..... if that's even necessary/good thinking. ??????? lol. Truckman? You might have something on this one? lol.
I have more to share, but I'm on the run again, .... bbsoon!
If you have a "new" harmonic balancer, it shouldn't have any burrs on it but if it does, use some scotch-brite or 220 grit (or finer) on the seal surface and don't forget to lube the seal before installing the balancer! A dry seal doesn't last long at all. Are you changing just the front main or the oil pump o-ring as well?
Truckman
#2070
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ
As far as the head gasket, I usually use a razor blade very gently as close to flat with the gasket surface to scrape off the big chunks on the block (do NOT do this on aluminum!) and then a new razor blade 90 degrees to the gasket surface to completely clean it off. (this does work on aluminum but be careful not to scratch so use a very sharp new razor blade).
If you have a "new" harmonic balancer, it shouldn't have any burrs on it but if it does, use some scotch-brite or 220 grit (or finer) on the seal surface and don't forget to lube the seal before installing the balancer! A dry seal doesn't last long at all. Are you changing just the front main or the oil pump o-ring as well?
Truckman
If you have a "new" harmonic balancer, it shouldn't have any burrs on it but if it does, use some scotch-brite or 220 grit (or finer) on the seal surface and don't forget to lube the seal before installing the balancer! A dry seal doesn't last long at all. Are you changing just the front main or the oil pump o-ring as well?
Truckman
Far as the harmonic, it's new, for sure, I picked it up. It's a decent one.... OE-Japanese, can't remember the name. The seal wasn't DRY-DRY, but I did NOT lube it last time. Now that it's leaking, ...>I guess it's gotta be changed. The oil pump is 4500 miles and the O-ring for oil pump is 100 miles and is OEM, from dealer. Sealed up the top middle bolt, as I've always done. ....Hmmm, what else? lol. .... Oh, I got an updated Front main, from dealer, ....it's 33% thinner, at least, ...and it probably is a good idea, now that I thought it out, as; The new OEM seal will be riding 33% further back on the harmonic, so even if it has wore a LIL bit into the harmonic, the new seal will not even ride in the same place, ....make sense? I'll hope for the best, lol.
#2073
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ
ExACTLY what I'm using... just love the acetone! lol.
FHEWWWWWWW, ME 2! LOL. Thanks, Zach! I appreciate that. I'm sure I still will have some bugs to iron out,....but at least I WILL KNOW that the valves guide system wont be taking a crap in the next 20K. Plus, all the drama it's causing now, ya know? lol.
BTW, guys, ....Got the block surface cleaned up nice,.... SMOOTH AS SILK, actually, and dry as a block-o-chalk, lol(Acetone, lol).
Just a tid bit of info;
As per Tod, Ted and Jim of Putney's instruction/feelings on the matter, ...I have chosen to go with Chilled Iron Guides. They've informed me that the Bronze Guides are GREAT for racing or CRAZY CRAWLER 4WD applications, ....but they don't last like the chilled iron do. Also, the margin is negligible to the eye, etc., but the bronze DO have to be set looser, as they hold more heat, less oil(do to porosity) and, finally, they're really, as mentioned above, more inclined to use them on racing motors, because "you want hot rod or at least MODIFIED performance applications to allow more play in the valves guides".... As I notice, when I was running these loose valves, I'm having no real difficulty when stomping on it,....no hesitation, nothing like that. But, when idling, .....they rock and roll all over the place, causing a lil more rocky rumble in the jungle, etc., lol. Plus, oil leaking through there doesn't always get fully burned up. Being rich is better than lean, right? But, after time, even a short time, the TOO RICH, due to having to step on it more to get where you're going, BECAUSE your fuel is having to mix with a lil bit of oil each time, making it harder to burn,...so?...MORE PEDAL, lol. Doesn't mean "Oh, I have to stomp on it TO GET ACROSS THE STREET~!" lol... Just that you're having to give it more than you would, IN THE PEDAL. Fuel and oil mix fairly easily.... and if it's doing so in the combustion chamber, through the valve guides... it's less likely to form smoking, etc., .... Where as Rings leaking are not coming in from the top, ...they're coming in from the bottom, and become a part of the explosion, but in that case, the oil doesn't all get burned up, more efficiently, like with a valve leakage...... That make any sense? lol.
I am a lil concerned about the 'clean spots' on my pistons...... around the edges. But, I know that they could come from the valve guide issue, and I just don't seem to have any of the symptoms of leaking rings. I don't have any bearing noise, and I WILL, yes, be checking the clearances once I get the oil pan off. I KNOW the bearings are all new, OE Japanese... I have the receipts... and I have the old bearings, all of them, in a bag out in the garage. Also, ....this is a replacement crank, ...so It was necessary in a sense, eh? lol. Oh, and I'm not really 'USING' much oil at all. Under 1/2 qt. in 1000 miles, ........with oil leaks to throw in the mix? Yeah, ...I don't think the bottom end is using oil. Honestly? I KNOW, I KNOW, ..I really wanna 'MAKE SURE OF EVERYTHING', ....but by the time I'm done with this project, including the thirds while I wait, etc.(IF I HAVE FREAK'N TIME! lol)... I just can't take the time to pull the block right now... If there's an issue with that, later, I WILL NOT WHINE, complain or moan.... And I WILL, at that point, pull the whole motor and swap it out..... First, I have other obligations of which I have to pay off, etc. And, ...yeah, this work, right now, is not free! lol.
BTW, guys, ....Got the block surface cleaned up nice,.... SMOOTH AS SILK, actually, and dry as a block-o-chalk, lol(Acetone, lol).
Just a tid bit of info;
As per Tod, Ted and Jim of Putney's instruction/feelings on the matter, ...I have chosen to go with Chilled Iron Guides. They've informed me that the Bronze Guides are GREAT for racing or CRAZY CRAWLER 4WD applications, ....but they don't last like the chilled iron do. Also, the margin is negligible to the eye, etc., but the bronze DO have to be set looser, as they hold more heat, less oil(do to porosity) and, finally, they're really, as mentioned above, more inclined to use them on racing motors, because "you want hot rod or at least MODIFIED performance applications to allow more play in the valves guides".... As I notice, when I was running these loose valves, I'm having no real difficulty when stomping on it,....no hesitation, nothing like that. But, when idling, .....they rock and roll all over the place, causing a lil more rocky rumble in the jungle, etc., lol. Plus, oil leaking through there doesn't always get fully burned up. Being rich is better than lean, right? But, after time, even a short time, the TOO RICH, due to having to step on it more to get where you're going, BECAUSE your fuel is having to mix with a lil bit of oil each time, making it harder to burn,...so?...MORE PEDAL, lol. Doesn't mean "Oh, I have to stomp on it TO GET ACROSS THE STREET~!" lol... Just that you're having to give it more than you would, IN THE PEDAL. Fuel and oil mix fairly easily.... and if it's doing so in the combustion chamber, through the valve guides... it's less likely to form smoking, etc., .... Where as Rings leaking are not coming in from the top, ...they're coming in from the bottom, and become a part of the explosion, but in that case, the oil doesn't all get burned up, more efficiently, like with a valve leakage...... That make any sense? lol.
I am a lil concerned about the 'clean spots' on my pistons...... around the edges. But, I know that they could come from the valve guide issue, and I just don't seem to have any of the symptoms of leaking rings. I don't have any bearing noise, and I WILL, yes, be checking the clearances once I get the oil pan off. I KNOW the bearings are all new, OE Japanese... I have the receipts... and I have the old bearings, all of them, in a bag out in the garage. Also, ....this is a replacement crank, ...so It was necessary in a sense, eh? lol. Oh, and I'm not really 'USING' much oil at all. Under 1/2 qt. in 1000 miles, ........with oil leaks to throw in the mix? Yeah, ...I don't think the bottom end is using oil. Honestly? I KNOW, I KNOW, ..I really wanna 'MAKE SURE OF EVERYTHING', ....but by the time I'm done with this project, including the thirds while I wait, etc.(IF I HAVE FREAK'N TIME! lol)... I just can't take the time to pull the block right now... If there's an issue with that, later, I WILL NOT WHINE, complain or moan.... And I WILL, at that point, pull the whole motor and swap it out..... First, I have other obligations of which I have to pay off, etc. And, ...yeah, this work, right now, is not free! lol.
#2075
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ
Yep, ....and if you noticed, I'm hopefully moving on to things while I'm waiting, anyhow! lol.
Still trying to plan out the Diff Swap stuff. Trying to find more info on the REAR diff inner stuff's swap. I think you pull the wheel end out a bit, slide the old out and the new in, eh? lol.
Still trying to plan out the Diff Swap stuff. Trying to find more info on the REAR diff inner stuff's swap. I think you pull the wheel end out a bit, slide the old out and the new in, eh? lol.
#2078
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Yeah, .....I hear ya!, hehe.
Yeah, .... the rear sounds much easier, but the front needs to be done EVENTUALLY, anyhow, right? so, ..... why not now, when it will give me easier access to the oil pan and such, right?
Far as the removing the front one, .... From what I've read it's not that difficult, takes about 2-3 hours, and goes something like.............(Obviously, first, 'DRAIN THAT SUCKA', lol)
1. Remove the cross member diff mount bolt, passenger side mount bolt but leave the driver side mount bolt in but broken loose.
2. Separate the Drive shaft from the Third yolk
3. Drop the cross member on the driver side, pivoting downward
4. Remove the 6 bolts on each side that go into the CV ends(not sure which one first, I'm just throwing out the general thing until I can pull up the page again on my laptop, lol)
5. At this point I think it's a lil more tricky, but mainly, I'd be trying to let the passenger side come down first some, to clear something, then with the diff supported by jack, let the driver side support bolt loose? I'll read it again, sorry, but just picking at thine brains for trickseth! lol.
Yeah, .... the rear sounds much easier, but the front needs to be done EVENTUALLY, anyhow, right? so, ..... why not now, when it will give me easier access to the oil pan and such, right?
Far as the removing the front one, .... From what I've read it's not that difficult, takes about 2-3 hours, and goes something like.............(Obviously, first, 'DRAIN THAT SUCKA', lol)
1. Remove the cross member diff mount bolt, passenger side mount bolt but leave the driver side mount bolt in but broken loose.
2. Separate the Drive shaft from the Third yolk
3. Drop the cross member on the driver side, pivoting downward
4. Remove the 6 bolts on each side that go into the CV ends(not sure which one first, I'm just throwing out the general thing until I can pull up the page again on my laptop, lol)
5. At this point I think it's a lil more tricky, but mainly, I'd be trying to let the passenger side come down first some, to clear something, then with the diff supported by jack, let the driver side support bolt loose? I'll read it again, sorry, but just picking at thine brains for trickseth! lol.
#2079
chef i pulled my half shafts and sway bar out before i took my diff out just so i had more room and i also put the the truck on jack stands behind the front suspension just so there wasn't any weight on it and took the tires off just my thoughts on how i did it
#2080
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ
Hey Guys, ........
I've torn it down and I'm ready to remove the timing cover, .....but this time, I'm having an even harder time removing the oil pan! grrr, hahaha. I know, I'm fierce, right? lol.
I'm going to double nut the studs into the bottom of the cover and remove them, that I might be able to remove the cover, first, ....and THEN push down on the front of a cover a lil bit, just to get started to where I might get a razor in there and slowly break it loose. That TOYOTA FIPG, ....GOOD GRIEF! LOL. Seriously, guys, ...it's like Krazy Glue! lol
So, on the docket, just to catch ya all up,.....
1. Replace both thirds, installing my Spartan locked 4:30 rear and 4:30 unlocked front diff.
2. Remove timing cover, clean up well and re'install cover and pan, while waiting for my valves, guides and gaskets(OEM Guides, OEM HG, Timing Cover and Intake Set from Putney's>>> THANKS, JIM, ...you rock! Incredibly grateful for your time and helping me out with a good price!
) 3. I'll be having my brakes power bled, soon as the thirds are done.(I'd like to figure out how they're wearing PERFECTLY, ...and yet, .... they squeak like a STUCK PIG, especially when cold. I used "quiet grease", etc., ....redid my entire brake system but the master(it's not leaking or anything, ..... so why not wait for it to break, right? hahaha).
4. I'm replacing all the fluids, when I do the thirds(obviously) and the transfer case as well. Not sure why, but the Transfer Case is OVERFULL, ....(any ideas how that is possible without the previous owner having it pouring all over the ground?????... When I pull that fill plug, ...it POURS out like it's another half quart to go before it reaches 'level with the fill plug' level..... ???) Already filled the Trans.
There's more, but I'm TOTALLY BRAIN FARTING! lol. Reeeeeeeeeeeally overwhelmed, lately. Trying to get a lil extra stuff on the side so I can take care of a couple obligations that are really bothering me... Don't like making people wait, ya know? Grrr.



