Thanks Phil, we try to strive here to keep to a set of standards that we have worked on for a very long time, and it means a lot to staff to hear these words.

Back to the other issue...
Some here have not seen the whole picture it seems.

Not only are we trying to keep trails open for us, but also for future generations after we are buried.

Many of you have kids (mine are grown, I am old enough to be a gramps) that may want to go 4wheeling 10, 15, 20 years from now, and we need to fight to keep our trails open for them as well.

Up where I go to Greenwater I have seen gates shut to areas where I use to go 10 years ago or more, so even in my area certain trails have been cutoff from me, but for the most part a lot is still open.

As I mentioned further up in this thread, I would hate for the lobbyists in the future when your kids are old enough to wheel to only hear them say to them "all your trails are belong to us."
No joke, if we do not do something about it today, there will be no trails open in the future.
Oh, the trails will be there, but they will be turned into hiking paths meant for walking sticks and Vibram soled hiking boots, not BFG, Goodyear, ect tires.

Right now I am putting together a "kit" to carry with my stuff back aft that has trash bag, ties, and vinyl gloves to pick up trash I see when out for a jaunt in the mountains.
It might not add up to much, but if I can bring out a small amount of trash each time I go up, that will add up in time.

 

Excellent post Corey, and trash pick up does make a HUGE difference.

People should also carry spill kits so when you bust something open good, you can get it cleaned up.

 

I don't know if this was also intended for me or what... but I never said I supported his position, nor did I say that I go off the trail.

The mods hold a dictatorship, so who am I to argue. In any case, it's apparent that if you're gonna break the rules, you should keep it to yourself. Tread Lightly everybody...

 

sorry, but did you think the forums rules and enforcement of those rules was some sort of member-voted democracy? how many forums are you on that have member-voted decision making? thanks for the ham-handed slam, but we've heard it before.

...now back to the topic for anyone who has anything constructive to add.

bob

 

I know the forums aren't member-voted and I said I wasn't gonna argue... How is that a slam?

 

You should probably shut up while you still can.

 

calling us a dictatorship? in my usage of the word 'dictatorship', there is nothing positive about the word. if you feel we are heavy handed and you can't abide by the rules here, as corey said above, you are free to participate in other forums.

if you'd like to discuss this further, reach me on PM.

(and thanks, brian for the words of wisdom)

 

Comedic relief via the Wabbit...

 

Rant on,
Been following this for awhile, time to chime in....
Spaz, the mods on this board are not the enemy, as a contributing member, you obviously see that this forum has a value that is great enough for you to contribute your hard earned dollars. My brief experience here has been wonderful, everyone here has a wealth of knowledge which is openly shared. I have lurked here since Feb of this year, keeping my mouth shut and listening/reading like a toddler, thirsting to further my knowledge of how my Runner can best perform and how I can learn to use it as an off road vehicle. I have never seen the mods of this forum behave unreasonably and when they do act, they act to enforce the rules of membership that are clearly defined. They also act to protect the integrity of this forum, plain and simple. The guy that posted his pics here broke the rules, plain and simple. I agree with some peoples opinions that the Tread Lightly rules are somewhat grey in some areas and are open for interpertation, in this particular case they were clearly broken IMO. We have a responsibility as a group to error on the side of caution, we must be diligent, we must educate ourselves. I think I had a judge put it in words to me when I was much younger.....Ingnorance of the law is not an excuse, son....Thinking that the mods are calling you out is the wrong way to look at this. The whole gist of this is that there are alot of people here that are devoting alot of time and energy to perserving one of the things that they like to do, which is to WHEEL. So I say let the mods do their jobs, call em as they see em so to speak, keep the forum moving in the right direction and lets all learn from this.
Rant off, time for dinner

 

You know how there are militant environmentalists? The ones who chain themselves to trees and bulldozers? If they are willing to do that, why would anyone think there aren't others out there monitoring forums such as this? There's certainly plenty of them and they are organized.

Make no bones about it, we are at war over our trails. Some of you are still too wet behind the ears to grasp it fully, but those who have been in the trenches for decades know what I am talking about. In a week, I will reach my 23rd anniversary of my first wheeling trip. The anniversary of the day I got bit by the bug. I have been doing it continuously ever since. If you have been wheeling for less time than that, shut your mouth and listen to the advice of the old people on the forum, you might actually learn something.

For 23 years, I have borne witness to the state of our trails and the fight to keep them open. And, for 23 years, I have listened to meat-heads try to justify going off the trails. There is no more justification for that than what any spoiled child has for what they do. It's just plain selfishness, pure and simple and it has no place in the fight to keep what remains of our trails open.

In this battle to keep our trails, there are six kinds of people;
1. Those who are actively fighting to keep them open.
2. Those who can be counted on to write/call when asked.
3. Those who will help when it's convenient.
4. Those who just can't get motivated.
5. Those who are hurting the effort.
6. Those who oppose wheeling patently.

Those who think that the Tread Lightly guidelines are anything but 100% applicable to their actions fall into category five, one step removed from the greenies closing the trails. Those in groups 4-6, who consider themselves wheelers, need to seriously think about finding a new passing fancy, for plainly you lack the commitment to the sport that it requires of you.

In the past 23 years, I would estimate I have seen 70% of the areas I used to wheel, either closed or severely restricted. Many of those were closed to due abuse, but in a lot of cases, that "abuse" started as a bypass that some self-centered moron decided to make, then someone else followed and so on. If you want to play grab ass, stay in the privacy of your own bedroom. This is serious business and has an effect on me and the others who have been enjoying this sport longer than many of those here have been alive.

Remember how I talked about militants? Well, I am militant about Tread Lightly. If I see you doing something that threatens MY access to MY trails, I WILL do something about it. I will try to educate you, but if you don't have a lick of sense, are too drunk to speak English or want to argue, I will turn in your plates, along with photos to the authorities, I will post your description and photo on the internet for everyone to see or maybe I will just let some of my less restrained companions have their way with you, since they are every bit as frustrated about the trail closures as I am. This I promise. And the best part? There's more and more like me out there every day. We are joining the game late, but we are learning as a usergroup to self-police in the hopes of combating the rising tide of area closures.

Yes, I am ticked off. I am ticked off at mental-midgets who can't see past their selfish wants and I am ticked off at those who will pour time and money into a rig, but who won't write a letter or go to a meeting. All that time and money will look GREAT at the mall when all the trails are closed.

Face it, only a moron provides ammunition to the other side in war time. That is called "treason".

 

And another thing, the word dictatorship implies that you are ruled by force, either physical, emotional, psychological, etc.. Visit Castro in Cuba, Stalin in old USSR, Kim Jong Il in N. Korea, etc. Break their rules, you'll get much more than a stern talking to and a rebuke by the mods. The members of this forum join and leave by choice which makes the moderators here a far cry from dictators. Just my 2 cents

 

You may deny it brotha, but that right there was some preaching!

Preach on brotha!

I've been waiting on you to chime in all day!

 

Word!
That was beautiful.

 

What I still don't understand is why is it OK for privately owned parks such as Paragon here in hazleton Pa., allow you to drive through waterways? just because its in the path of a trail? turn around then and go back. no? there waterways all go through other associated rivers, streams, etc.

FYI - I'm an advocate for tread lightly as well. And not for nothing, we'll be lucky if our planet last's to a 100 years. They're predicting 50 -100 years as there mentioning on all these global warming specials...

 

Rob, very well said. You want to know what else is funny, i just passed my 22nd wheeling aniversary, and am looking forward to my 23rd. Never thought about it until now, but every single one of those years was in a toyota too.

I'm feeling more encouraged with the more support we get here. The train has picked up steam, and its feeling good.

Oh, and Rob brought up another point. I don't consider it militant, but i have personally turned in 2 peoples plates with pictures to the authorities, and will not hesitate a second to do so again. Once was after we extracted them from a mudhole. Both were given tickets, both exceeded $500. Doesn't matter what you are driving, or what you say, it goes in, period.

 

One of my first experiences off roading was in the mid 70s in an FJ40 with some friends up North of Seattle somewhere.
Probably around 30 years ago.

 

Well, I remember wheeling before they even had cars and we just ran on the trails barefoot uphill both ways in the snow!

 

Well since I have only been at it about 5 years my opinion does not count?
I think......No!

It does not take 23 or 30 years of off roading to have some common sense about this issue.

I know lots of wheelers who have been at it forever and never advocated tread lightly or trail repair days or even simply written a letter supporting land use for OHV's. Then again I know people who have been at it for only a year who have done all 3.

Not sure why some cannot understand the effects of their actions against mission success which is simply to keep lands open for our use.

Stay on the Trail.

Obey posted trail use laws and rules.

Pay the required fees and passes.

OR

DON"T WHEEL ANYWHERE BUT ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY!

Easy Day!

 

I took some pictures of a jeep with what looked to be 38" tires the other day driving down I-65 the other day. I turned them over to the cops and I hope they follow up and ticket the driver. It is illegal to drive on public roads with modified suspension, lights and bumpers which do not meet Tennessee code. I'm no militant I just don't like people who drive fast or drive unsafe vehicles on public roadways.

 

I'm sure Rob is just talking about those idiots that get into a Hummer and think they can take on Everest. There's also quite a few younger wannabe wheelers that don't take things seriously.

As is with most things in life - it's usually the younger, less-experienced crowd that don't give certain activities as much respect as they deserve. If you're an avid shooter I'm sure you already know what people to usually avoid at the range.