I am glad we are getting some of these perspectives out in the open.

 

When I hike and bike I stay on the trail to avoid causing undue erosion, I also stay off muddy trails....it only makes sense to do the same with my truck. I am new to light wheeling but if only a few hikers and bikers can cause a large amount of trail damage I have to wonder about the impact of the 4runner. I also participate in trail and stream clean up days as well as my own maintenance with my little handsaw on the occasional blowdown. might as well take part in the maintenance of the trails I use when I can.

New hiking and biking trails are made around here from time to time in cooperation with whichever department is necessary. Careful thought is given to erosion and other impacts when they are built though, they aren't just blazed willis nilly. 'Course, around here everything is used rather heavily so must be given careful thought.

Not perfect by any means, but keeping it all in mind as I mosey along.

 

Thats what i am tring to put to words.

What those two did is technically wrong, but not devistatingly. instead of hammering them, educated them.
We still need to consider the area too. Whats right in Cali is not going to be the same in Big Sky or New york.

The best way is to do just like it is stated:

"New hiking and biking trails are made around here from time to time in cooperation with whichever department is necessary. Careful thought is given to erosion and other impacts when they are built though, they aren't just blazed willis nilly."

Perfect. Gets us new places to wheel, shows our involvment to protect whats there, and basically educates us as to whats involved in maintaining such an area right?

The original question was about the seriousness of tread lightly,
I think those two guys got slammed pretty hard, and it seemed in writing that some here do take certian things to an extreme.

This topic is a new area for a lot of people and it will take work and understanding to get it to the front of everyones minds.
I know i am still learning and growing with it.

It should be a serious matter but it also needs a diffeent approach to educate the offenders.

Am i on the right track?

 

You have not seen extreme yet.
If we get our partnership/membership that I worked hard to get yanked from the attitude here that it is OK to blaze new trails at one's own whims, you will see me "extremely" pissed off.

 

Just to throw this out there...

By referring to 'trail', we're talking about publically owned land, correct?

 

I think you have completely missed the point. Where you are in NY, there ARE rules relating to trail use, etc. You just are completely ignorant of them. Perhaps where you are noone is cracking down on off road use, however, it will happen, it is happening everywhere.
I am not as concerned about your rig "destroying the earth" as I am about your rig ruining terrain to the point that some greenie can come along and get it closed. Say you have one main trail through a forest area, it is public land, you are free to use it, but you decide that it is ok to "make your own trail", then another guy goes down your trail and decides to make his own trail, then another guy goes down HIS trail off of YOUR trail, etc, etc. Now the whole area is criss-crossed with trails winding every which way, now the public forest area has no where for the animals to live because people are driving all around it, now all the trails are eroding and running down each other, causing the whole area to wash out, now someone comes in with pics of what it looked like two years ago and compares to what it looks like now and BAM, your trail is now illegal because you couldn't bring yourself to stay on the one you were given.
You can't look at it as "If I drive through this trail, this area will not be destroyed tomorrow.". You have to look at the big picture. As Bob said, we are under the microscope here. All it takes is ONE treehugger with a camera to come in and take some shots of how an area has been "abused" and bring them to the local government, now your trails are closed. However, it takes years and tons of man-hours on the part of off roaders to get those trails open again. They have to clean them, maintain them, block off the illegal sections of them, etc, the whole time fighting with the guys that want is closed.
New England loves to close any and all land to motor vehicle use. Creating your own trail is immediate grounds for trail closure. Trash thrown on the trail is immediate grounds for trail closure, I suppose you figure that since cardboard and paper it biodegradable, it is ok to throw it on the trail too?
Here is an example, these pics, which I have posted here before are from Old Florida Rd here in MA:



As you can see there are some good obstacles here and the trail is a very enjoyable trail. Unfortunately, this trail has cost thousands of dollars and thousands of man-hours to keep open, for the specific reason that people are making their own trails off to the sides to get around the harder obstacles. Explain to me how it is ok for you to make your own trails, explain to me how it doesn't affect anything. This road, right now, is in such a delicate state, that a picture of you driving around one of these obstacles could get it closed.
Tread Lightly is not a suggestion as some people have said, you follow it because if you don't, it becomes very easy for people to get your trails closed. I am sure you don't care, but you will when it happens to you. Keep in mind, wheeling on public land is not a right that we have. It is a right that we earn. The state is not "required" to allow you to wheel on it's land. A state is well within its rights to close any and all land to motor vehicle use. What you see as your "right" to drive on it is a priveledge, not a right. Just because the state owns some land does not make it "your land", that is the states land and there are more people fighting to get it closed to motor vehicle use than there are trying to keep it open. So do we "bend our ideals" to please the fanatics? I guess that depends on what your "ideals" are. Should we take extra care while off road to stay on the trails? Yes. Should we pick up trash that we did not put there? Yes. Why are these against your ideals?

 

Intrepid, well put.

I can see the headlines now if we do not take action to keep our trails open:
_______________________
The Greenies Gazzette

We are closing down more and more off roading areas due to off roaders not taking the Tread Lightly seriously.

"All your trails are belong to us"

 

 

I loved this quote:

"Why should the environmentalists dictate our hobby"

The "greenies" are in charge, becasue the "greenies" care, are organized, and have alot of money. They have lobbyests at the local, state, and national levels. I don't see many folks here writing their congressman, or sending money to an "offroading lobby". Too many folks don't care. I write my congressman, both in the state congress, and in DC, to voice my opinion everytime trails get closed down out here.

Second, and here is the big one, the attitude i see prevalent here is "who cares?"

Guess what? That is what these green SOB's want you to think. You are feeding them ammo, and they are loving it. You make it easy for them. Our trails get closed down, and then what? I love the guys who are sitting here saying "you're overreacting, i go off the trail all the time."

You are being unreasonable. I can see no other explanation. We are over reacting? We are acting, which is more than i can say for you. The greens are slapping you in the face with their collective johnson, and you are taking every smack sitting down. Referendum after referendum, trail closures, and park closures, and still we get "who cares? Trails get closed down all the time, nothing i can do about it." Well, you could do us all a favor and get the hell out of the sport.

And don't give me any BS gas guzzling SUV garbage. My 4runner, with modifications, gets 26-27 mpg on the highway, 22-23 in the city. Its not up there with hybrid cars, but its not all that far behind either.

 

That gets as good as the Highlander Hybrid.

Good post by the way.

 

Yes, very good post AxleIke.
Lot of good points in this thread.

I see in this thread and the other one that is now closed the "I do not care attitude, I will do what I want, you are all being overly extreme" type of thinking.

As Axle mentioned, this is what they want you to think.
Believe me, they have people out there filming/taking snapshots of you.

One of the biggest supporters?
REI of course.
Their $$$ does not come from supporting off roading, it comes from hiking, camping, ect.

 

Axle,

You made some excellent points, but let's not turn this debate/discussion into personal attacks.

Thanks,
Bob

 

Apologies, Edited.

 

If the trail is too hard for you - turn around.

If it's too easy - find a harder trail.

 

Wow! In the process of checking in on the initial thread I obviously was directed here and have to say that I am glad were are discussing this ideal we call Tread Lightly.

I think we all know where I stand in regards to the current topic and getting a "member" booted was not my intent. As that other thread continued it was obvious that there are those who will always have different ideals on respecting what those before us have built. Yes, many trails were established by not treading lightly. We now live in different times and have guidelines to follow to keep these trails open.

Tread Lightly is established for a reason, and that is to safeguard the continued use of our trail systems. Unfortunately for us wheelers, it gives the "greenies" something to bite into when they need ammo to support a contested trail closing due to misuse.

Everyone is entitled to his-her own opinion and that's what makes the world go 'round. I just won't wheel with those that don't respect the environment and trails within it. Using the "...well, you drive a car that does more damage to the environment." stance is premature and ignorant in my mind. In regards to our trail systems, there is no option other than to Tread Lightly.

Andy

 

?



Good discussion in this thread.

We need to tread lightly or simply be prepared to loose land that is availible to us. Period.


It is not too much to ask for wheelers to stay on marked trails. I would say most of us on this site do but it takes just a couple people acting irresponsibly to impact us all.

 

As far as crossing streams, even though they may be part of the trail, oil from your underbody, brake pad dust and other contaminates are deposited into said stream especially if you are up to your bumpers. personally I think that ORV trails should never cross streams. As far as that guy dropping one tire into the stream, the trail should have never been built so close to it. Just my 2 cents.

 

It appears that the meaning of my original post is lost on the masses so allow me to elaborate.

Most of the time, any wheeling off the original trail is done by those who can't do an section or prefer to miss a hard obstacle.

The other times, it's from people that get a bored with the trail that they're on because they're not flexing their rigs enough so they choose to make a deliberate detour OFF the trail to find a twisty section.

Capiche?

 

That makes sense when spelled out like that.

You know me it has to be Barney Style.

Caphice!

 

Nope. I haven't missed the point. They are cracking down on trails but it isn't the "greenies" that are doing it, it is private owners. I'am not worried about the greenies shutting down trails cause they are going to do it regaurdless so take your rig and go out and wheel.

Well I got one hell of an idea, why don't all of the mods just delete threads containg pictures of off-road abuse so the "greenies" will not have anything to nail you for. This way it is a smaller chance they can catch anyone in the act. Also don't BAN someone for posting pictures of their OFF-ROAD truck being OFF ROAD!! Just delete the god damn thread and throw him a PM!! I know it is a crazy idea!

Nah I don't throw garbage on the trail, I usually burn it in the campfire.

You pay taxes, right? Do you consider your hard earned money that you pay the state a privaledge? Or is it a right to use the land since you helped pay for it?

They are your ideals I guess. Fanatics? You please who you want to please, that is your business. Also where do you get this idea that I throw garbage around?

The earth has been here for billions of years, it isn't going anywhere in the next 100, we are maybe, but the earth isn't and those "greenies" are going to take it away regaurdless of what we do to keep it "right" so go out and have fun and don't [edited] anyones personal property and you most likely be ok.

James