I have a 1st gen body/3rd gen everything else so unfortunately I may not get the best response in Gen specific sections.

Rear window got stuck down after not starting the truck for 2 years, I lowered the window to open the tailgate- motor worked and then window wouldn't go up. Started looking into the tailgate/rear panel wiring and found a birds nest of both gen's harnesses with lots of unused plugs and DIY clamp connectors. Very much a hack job by PO. My electrical knowledge is limited, but I could fumble through with a diagram, test light and multimeter. I want to try this myself before trying to find a shop that will even do it.

I've been over 4crawler info and the 1st gen diagram. I'm getting clues from the internal cargo switch mod write ups on both gens. My ignorance with electrical is confusing the issue of which "extra" plugs in the harness clusterF might be redundant or if something there is necessary to complete a circiut.

Center console/switch from 3rd gen.

No tailgate key cylinder switch. I removed the entire plastic housing years ago after making a bumper/tire carrier that was too close to close

Rear wiper function was eliminated long ago, disconnected/never worked.

99 relay control module did have some interior corrosion due to 1st gen body rust, corrosion was only on 1 corner- not near the internal relays. I cleaned it as carefully as possible. Test light confirms one pin has constant Bat, one pin has key on- module is working to some degree.

Shell safety switch tests OK with multimeter/Ohms- opens & closes.

1.How do I test motor with 12v? Bat +/- to which connector (87 tailgate wiring) and which polarity to which pin?
Assuming motor works:
2. Anyone have a 96- mid 99 relay control module diagram? I found the FSM online but in 2152 pages, I can't find a table of contents or a map of that connector.
3. a) Can I operate the window from the control module harness connector (module removed)/ what are the pin receptacles?
b) Can those pin receptacles in the harness connector be tested by grounding a test light to the right pin? By jumping a combo of pins? By applying 12v?
4.How do I jump the connector at the front console switch? I have not tested the console switch itself for Ohms
5) If I find no power from the switch at the rear panel mess, how do I start to find a ground issue or short?
6) Is there another forum with some wiring guru's? IH8MUD, others?

 

Here's the only schematic I could find. I hope it's some sort of help.

Having a mixed wiring setup, heavily modified, makes life a lot harder.

BTW, yes, you can test the motor. It's only got 2 wires going to it, one for UP, one for DOWN. Just jump +12VDC from the battery, or from an external battery if you don't have one installed in the truck normally, to one side or the other. You do have to hook the negative battery lead, if using an external battery, to a real good, shiney, clean, bare metal, ground.
Since the glass is already all the way down, and with the motor hooked directly to a battery, bypassing the limit switches and safety features, be very cautious. You don't want to force the motor to drive below the full down position. You also don't want to leave the battery hooked directly to the motor for more than a second or two, or it can burn out the motor. Just connect the battery for a moment to check the motor quickly, ensuring it's functional.

I, personally, would get rid of as much of the excess wiring, and lousy connections, left for you by the PO. The closer you can make the wiring to "stock", and the less "no longer used/installed" mods, the easier troubleshooting it will be. A rat's nest of wiring will do nothing but be confusing.

Does this help at all?
Pat☺

 

Yes, thank you! That diagram will be helpful, I just need to scratch my head a while and learn what some of the symbols mean. I'll test the motor tonight.

So it's too much voltage straight from the battery to at least power the window up so it doesn't rain inside and I can lock it up?

You mean this?

I didn't want to cut anything out in case there was something there with a relay or switch, but after thinking about it and looking at the all the plugs and diagram, I bet most of that is unnecessary stuff from the 3rd gen tailgate. I guess the best thing to do is cut all the 3rd gen stuff I can out of this mess, shouldn't be too hard seeing what dead ends with a plug. If I can Identify the right pin on the 99 module, I can take the 87 motor up/down wires to the 99 pin at a minimum.

If I can roll up the glass, I'll start cleaning it up with some extra wire length and better connections. I know solder is best, but are butt connectors and shrink tube acceptable?

About the console switch... looks like a wire was spliced, maybe to let the switch work without key. How can I jump the switch wires to bypass for test?

 

That is quite a rats nest of wiring!

There should be a round plug connector coming right off of the 1st gen window motor, inside will be the two metal connectors, applying battery + to one side, and battery - to the other, will make the window go one way, switching the wires will make it go the opposite direction. Should be the easiest way to test the motor. Like Pat said, don't leave those wires connected, should just be able to touch them to see which way the window wants to go/if it wants to go.

 

Thanks! I'll try that later.

 

Question: If I'm following the diagram right, 12v to the round window motor plug bypasses all the detection/limit/warning switches?

If so, then it's the motor. I did see here on YT maybe- that someone found a Camry door motor was a replacement, which should make finding a replacement easier.

 

Yes, solder is the best way, however, butt connectors with heat-shrink over then will work. Especially if you use what's called FIT-300 heat-shrink. Also known as meltwall heat-shrink. It has a heat meltable coating on the inside, and when you apply the heat to shrink the tubing (using a heat gun, preferably), the inner wall melts down into a goo, while the outer wall shrinks like normal heat-shrink. The inner wall fills in all the air gaps inside whatever the heat-shrink is around. It really helps keep moisture, chemicals, etc, out.
The regular heat-shrink most people think of and use is known as FIT-200. No meltwall inside.
The FIT-300 heat-shrink is also just as good for soldered connections. It's the main kind I use. A little more expensive, but WELL worth it.
Speaking of, there is a kind of heat-shrink that has a band of solder in it, in addition to the meltable wall materiel. It comes in 1 to 1 1/2" sections, precut.
You need to tin the two wires first, put them into the piece of heat-shrink, with the band of solder in the middle of the two wire's overlap. Do NOT apply flux to the two wires once they're tinned, as there's no way, once the heat-shrink is on, to clean the residue out.
Apply the heat, the solder melts onto the two wires, soldering them together, the the whole thing shrinks down, and the meltwall melts. IMHO, having worked as an electronics tech my entire life, it's a good way to solder two wires together, while applying heat-shrink at the same time.
Personally, after the schooling the Marines gave me, I prefer to do the soldering myself, BUT the heat-shrink with the solder in it is a viable alternative.

Just be VERY careful about having the glass up out of the tailgate, especially with the tailgate down. It has no support, and it takes only a very slight pressure on the glass to break it. That's why there are a number of safety interlocks: to prevent people from putting the glass "up" with the tailgate down.
Trying to work on the wiring is very difficult with the tailgate closed, since you have to sit in the bed to do it. Hard and uncomfortable sitting on the metal of the bed, legs folded up, trying to trace out wires, solder or butt splice wires, etc etc.
Much better to determine the functionality of the motor, them leave the glass down inside the tailgate, where it's protected and supported, until you're all done with the wiring. Including the console switch. THEN close the tailgate, and see if the glass will go up normally.

You want to bypass the console switch?
Easy enough. Two possibilities.
1) Take a short length of wire, say 2-4", and crimp alligator clips on each end. Then you can clamp one on each terminal of the switch, effectively holding the switch closed.
2) IF the connectors that go on the switch are opposite types, IE: One is a male, and one a female, spade terminals, which is unlikely, but it's possible, you can pull them off and connect the two to one another, again, effectively holding the switch closed.
Having said that, if they're both the same, IE: female spade terminals, make a short jumper with the opposite type, like a male spade terminal, and plug the jumper into the connector that goes onto the switch. Again, it effectively holds the switch closed.
Is that what you wanted to do?

By the way, having a short jumper with male spade terminals on both ends is very useful in setting the timing, testing the fuel pump, etc. You have to jump two terminals in the test connector on the fuse block in the engine compartment. T1-E1 to set the timing, IIRC. A paperclip WILL do the job, but hey, if you already made a jumper with two male spade terminals on it, it will work perfectly for this.
Many years ago, I made a set of jumpers, one with male spade terminals, one with females, and one with alligator clips on it. I keep them in my electrical tool kit, and they're readily available if I need them for whatever. Really came in handy when my COR failed.
Also, if you do make a short jumper of some kind, make sure you don't crimp the wire in the middle into a V shape. It breaks the strands of wire inside the insulation, possibly even completely causing the strands to separate. They do that, it's not a jumper any longer. It's a short piece of broken wire. Useless.
Always only bend the wire of the jumper in a curve, as gentle a curve as possible.

Does all my rambling help at all?
Pat☺

 

Yes, running 12v straight to the motor will bypass all relays and safety features. If you can't get it to move either way by swapping those wires back and forth, I agree it's probably the motor.

 

Thank you and bummer. I'll follow up when I find a replacement.

 

Dang Pat, that is all very useful info. Thank you.

Looks like the motor is probably bad- but I did have an intermittent short somewhere around the console when it was leaned on the wrong way. When I do get the motor to work, any idea which 2 to jump to bypass the switch? This switch is from the 99 and the terminal has 5 wires. Guessing the green/black stripe (jumped to the white/green stripe- probably to use switch with key off) is one, and the other green/black stripe is the other?

 

That I don't know. Your best bet would be to get a wiring diagram to follow, but do you need a 1st gen or 3rd gen schematic?

I only have a basic understanding of wiring, hopefully someone with more knowledge chimes in.

 

Exactly . Feels sometimes like the Johnny Cash song, One Piece At A Time- "It's a '60, '61, '62, '64 '65, '66, '67, '68, '69, '70 automobile..."

Depends on the part. For the console switch I need 3rd gen. Also for the window relay module for the 3rd gen.

 

Best I can offer is a schematic and parts placement diagram from a 1990 FSM.
I don't know if they'll be any help, but they can't hurt...
Look on the bottom page, page 29, of the component placement diagram to see the wiring/plugs for the rear window/wipers. It includes the console switch. Remember, if you want to jumper the switch to an "always closed" position, to put the jumper into the plug on the wiring harness, not the plug coming out from the console. You are trying to tell the system the switch is closed. You have to jumper the wiring harness plug to do that, not the plug running into the console. The plug running into the console being jumpered would tell the system that the switch is "always open", since the plug is pulled, so the two switch contacts can never tell the system that it's closed.
Does all that make any sense?

The best way to make sure you have the correct two wires is to pull the switch out of the console and LOOK at it. What wire color codes are actually coming off the switch it's self. When it comes to stuff like this never assume. You know what that leads to...

Also, just because the book SAYS that a wire has a certain color code, don't necessarily believe it. They changed color codes of wires in the middle of years, sometimes even month by month. Personally, I think they used the color codes the FSM calls out...when they could. If they ran out, they just substituted one that was close. Or even just one they had on hand. Always LOOK. The Mark 1 eyeball is a pretty reliable piece of test equipment

Good luck to you!
Pat☺

 

So I finally got a new motor in, it works only by power directly to motor. What a mess.

I may have shorted something now though. When I started this, in the tailgate window relay module harness (via test light) I found pins for key on, battery constant - and what I thought were the up and down pins. Now I seem to only have power at the key on pin. Fuses are all good. I want to remove all the BS and try to get close to factory wiring after I get the console switch working. I know that I could bypass everything with a DPDT switch/ inline fuse but I'd rather not unless it's my last effort.

I want a 3rd gen pin out of the module but I haven't been able to find anything but 1st and 2nd gen. A schematic of the console switch would be nice too, though with the swapped components it's a crap shoot if it will be accurate. I'm asking for a diagram on another forum.

Possibly weird observations:
Relay has intermittent click about every minute with key on.
I only have 1 relay in the module that I can hear click with a test light probe.
The motor wires have been jumped with 2 other wires that look like part of a big loop of the otherwise redundant 3rd gen tailgate harness. The 2 blues are the motor wires. So- they jumped the console switch and the motor wires in the rear panel.

I don't know where to start. Here are my next questions:
Would checking the 87 gate safety switches for continuity be the best first thing?
Is there a way to check the relays in that module without removal? I don't have the skills to do that if they are soldered. They are about $50 used on eBay, I'd rather not guess on that.
How do I look for bad grounds? I've only one in the gate under the panel and one in the rear body panel.
To track down a short if it is a broken wire, do I just look for continuity from point to point?

 

Remove the wires connected to the ground, and LOOK. Is there ANY kind of dirt, corrosion, anything? On either side of the connection? IE: on the metal where the wires, probably all gathered in a ring terminal, touch the metal of the body. Same for the body metal under the ring terminal. Both sides should be clean, shiney, metal. No oil, grease (other than silicone dielectric grease), corrosion, nothing. Are the wires going into the terminal clean and shiney inside it? Are they in nice and tight? A little tug on each one.
Then break out the multimeter. Set it on the lowest ohm setting there is. Make sure the battery is totally disconnected. Ohm-meters and current don't get along at all well!
Touch one lead to the wires where they go into the terminal, and the other to the metal of the terminal it's self. Should read 0 ohms, or very, very close. Another check you can do is to start with one lead at where the wires start, ie: a terminal, relay solder connection, whatever. The other lead on the ring terminal. Again, almost no resistance. The longer the wire, there may be a very slight reading, but it should be very low. Well under 1 ohm.
Connect the terminal back where it came from. Check the terminal to some nice, clean, shiney metal of the body, someplace. Even to the battery negative lead. Same thing again. Should read almost nothing on the meter.
Take some nice, fine sandpaper, the finest grit you can find, or even a pencil eraser, and polish both the terminal and the metal it connects to.

Start at one end of the wire. Where does that one, individual wire start out? Ohm from there to ground. See above. Bright, clean, shiney metal of the body. Do you read anything to ground? You shouldn't, obviously. It should read infinity ohms, unless it's a ground connection. Read from the starting end to the next connection. Low ohms again. Read to the next connection after that. Low, low ohms. Keep going to where the wire ends, looking for an increase suddenly. You now know that somewhere between the connection you checked last, and the one you're testing currently the wire is open, or damaged.
Remember, a broken wire may, or may not be shorted to ground, or anything else. A broken wire reads infinity ohms, not zero ohms. A short reads zero ohms.

BTW: I see in picture above, that they used what's known as "vampire" clips to connect to the wiring. Those things damage the wire and insulation by their very nature, as you can see. Notice the blue-yellow wire next to the still installed clip. See how the insulation is cut through? The wire it's self may well be cut too! Those clips are quick, and easy to use, but IMO, they do more damage than they're worth, by a long shot. That B-Y wire should have that small section cut out, and reconnected together somehow. A butt-splice, with some heat-shrink over it, and by "over it" I mean all the way over it, so it tightens down on the wire's insulation at both ends, or even better, a well made solder connection, again, with heat-shrink over it. Preferably, the "melt-wall", or FIT-300 type. It will protect better than regular heat-shrink, especially in an automotive environment. Water, oil, gasoline, the list goes on. The FIT-300 keeps it all out better than the normal heat-shrink.

I hope this is some, small help...
Pat☺

 

Luckily I learned that a long time ago on a free Harbor Freight meter!


Makes perfect sense now that I hear it. Like I said, wiring moron here.

I've been finding several of those in this rig, definitely one of the things I want to clean up and I will definitely follow your previous advice. Even a moron like me knows that's halfass. I'd never use those unless, maybe, it was a temporary repair on the go. Thanks for the heads up on the waterproof shrink connectors BTW, just used 2 on the new motor connector. I had to order a Camry motor which had different connectors and incidentally wasn't tapped with screw threads.

I did see the nicks on all 4 around that splice and thought the PO hack exposed wire to test.

Yes, and thank you!

Any idea about the continuously clicking relay, could be a short caused feedback? Does it seem weird that only one pin makes a relay in that module to click with power applied? I'm using the "key on" pin + ground to test.

 

I'm pretty sure I've hit a dead end and the problem must be the relay control. Like I said in the beginning, it had some minor interior corrosion. I believe the switch is giving signal up to there.

No luck with junkyards right now and $50 + shipping seems like a lot for a used one considering I already don't have defrost or wiper. I think tailgate closed safety is the only thing I'll lose so I'm going to bypass with a switch for now so I can take this thing camping. I think I'll tuck it up tight under the body and route back up to the center console for now, I'll wrap it in a conduit underneath. When I find a cheap module I'll try to get factory functions back.

Is this all I need?:
14g wire
DPDT switch
fuseable link, 20A fuse

Is this right?


Couldn't I use power from the "key-on" wire from the relay control harness, and if so would it need to be fused? It would be nice to run it all together instead of putting another loose wire in the engine bay from the battery.

And this switch can't be DPDT with only 5 pins, right?

 

I've been trying to find the diagram I followed when I used a 6pin DPDT on-off-on switch to bypass all the relays, but haven't come across it yet. From memory your drawing is correct I believe. I'm not sure if you can use that 5pin switch, someone with better wiring knowledge will need to chime in, I only have a basic understanding. Still working on that.

I put my switch in the knock out to the left of the steering wheel, it popped right in after some slight filing.

 

^^^ Thanks. The switch I ordered will be here today. I'll try it out. After staring at the drawing long enough, and thinking of how I've used DPDT switches in residential wiring it started to make sense and I'm pretty sure it will work. I get hung up on body/chassis grounds, how many amps and trying to conceptualize how that harness gets power and if it's tied to anything else that shouldn't be interrupted.

 

I grounded my switch in the drivers kick panel with the existing ground that's there. Ran my power through the firewall to the battery with an inline 30amp fuse.