If you've got the cash to change out most of the front end drive train on a new LC, then it makes this thread mute to a big degree.

I am talking about minor changes (lift)/bigger tires done to a new "fancy smancy" LC and taking it on long, long, long, rough wash boarded road trips, with mud, rock crawls, and whatever else places like Alaska, Canada, Mexico, US, and CA/SA can through at it. The new ones just have too much to go wrong with them and will leave you stranded IMO.

I am not saying that someone can't throw $10 000+ grand at the new ones and wheel them in MOAB or the likes. Or for that matter wheel them "as is". But I dare someone to take the new LC, add a slight lift/tires only, and do some mud bogging, rock crawling, long distance washboard roads out in the boonies. See how long it is before something "electronic" goes wrong.

Let's face it, the average person who buys one of these things new doesn't even know what a diff lock is, let alone be able to SAS or modify it themselves. Perhaps it is because I only see things from a "how reliable is it when you are in the boonies?" expedition standpoint. If I can't fix it or jury rig it in the boonies, it has no use for me.

Cheers

 

Aye....completely agree.....I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. theory for everything I build

 

Luxury cars have no place in the normal market!

 

For people like most of us here on yotatech, yes. However it is the masses of "sheep people" that "drives" the new car buying market (pun intended). If the car companies relied on most of us here they'd go bankrupt tomorrow.

This is not intended to offend those yotatechers who have recently purchased new luxury vehicles. LOL My wife wants a new Acura TL or Lexus GS 300 etc. And believe me I won't complain when I drive it, but I'd never buy one for me personally. To each their own, even within my own family.

I will disown my son if he buys a Jeep though... LOL

Cheers,
BAAAAA

 

Alot of people do simple mods (or whacko mods) and off road new LCs but since it's so uncommon you rarely hear about it so does anybody have facts and not opinions of the off road durability of a new LC. It's not like you can take any cheaper new SUV and throw a mild lift and tires on it and go bogging,crawling and long distance washboarding and expect it to be rock solid.

You seem to be making a statement that expensive is more brittle than cheap which I don't think that's the case and your saying only people (not rich) that can't afford an LC know anything about rear lockers and real off roading.

The average person that buys any truck doen't even know what a rear diff lock is. Only 1% of any new 4Runners will ever see much beyong a gravel road and since LCs aren't as common as 4Runners than the number of LCs off road is going to be even rarer so to say they are worse or more likely to break is pure speculation.

 

You seem to be missing my point. I don't care how "expensive" a vehicle is. New vehicles, irregardless of how much they cost, seem to have way more electronics tied in to their drive trains. That will greatly increase their chances of break downs/problems, compared to a more simplistically designed truck, and leave you stranded.

Speculation? Yes, cause I have not tried it with a brand new LC. But if you are arguing that new, highly electronic dependent vehicles are more reliable than simple ones, that says a lot...

And, no, I am not implying that people who can't afford LC's are the only ones who know about lockers/off-roading. I know that all types of people own LC's from young to old, rich to poor, who've wheeled the heck out of them all (40, 60, 80, and 100 Series). But if I had to drive an extremely long distance, expedition style, I'd be going with fully (mechanically) equiped 60 or 80 Series. They are proven, easy to find parts, and have fewer electronics than anything put out in the last 10 years by Toyota.

Pehaps I am naive, but I do expect a vehicle to be rock solid if I am taking it out on expedition, new or old, it doesn't matter. There are numerous examples on the net of people who've driven their older FJ 60's and 80's across Australia, Africa, etc. and have never been stranded. That is most likely do to their simplicity (I'll argue for you, yes that is speculation, LOL).

Again, all I am saying is when out in the boonies simple is better.

 

Meh, Toyota electricals are fine. I'd trust Toyota electricals over NASA stuff anyday. Now if the e-stuff were to fail (ripping out an ABS sensor wire or something) you'd just lose ABS and trac. Not a big deal, no worse than tearing out an ARB air locker hose... or busting the wire for an e-locker, which you'd have anyways on an expedition rig.

As for crawl mode and other doodads, are they really required on an expedition rig? Who cares if that stuff dies, it won't actually leave you stranded if you have even the smallest bit of off-road driving experience, and a pair of selectable lockers, which you'd have already. Although that option is not available from the factory, neither are big knobby tires...

Having functional and cold air conditioning, and a cooler box in the armrest for ice cold water, those are gadgets that any 4wheeler would dearly love to have.

I'm not saying that more e-gadgets are better, just that if they fail, you're not worse off than having a basic 80's rig.

 

Agreed.

 

Land Rovers are one of the most universally popular expedition vehicles of all time, and they are notoriously unreliable when it comes to electrical malfunctions...I have seen it first hand on fully built expedition ready Discos.

 

You make some very valid points. But what about if the drive by wire fails? Just curious. Most new vehicles are coming equipped with it. I've seen it happen on an Xterra on a very simple water crossing. There are certain new gadgets that aren't that easily fixed on the trail, let alone when you are in the outback. His truck got stuck and flooded in something because an electronic component left him stranded there. $2500 later, not including the towing and interior cleaning charge, he got his truck back. Says it never ran the same after that.

Perhaps having my 4x4 trek cut short on my rare day off by the Xterra has left a bad taste in my mouth for all unecessary electronic gadgets. Hence my attitude towards them.

 

Just because they are popular doesn't mean they are good. That is why so many people end up with LCs after they've tried the Rovers. The ones who stick with Rovers often do so out of loyalty to the brand, not because they are the superior vehicle IMO.

 

 

If a "drive by wire" system fails you have what is called "limp mode" so you can still move the vehicle. It wont be driveable, but just enough to get you off the highway let's say.
Was he able to drive the Xterra off the trail?

 

Limp mode means it idles. No he wasn't even close to being able to drive it off the trail. He literally had to be dragged to the highway. Fortunately we were able to hook him up to a couple of vehicles to get him through the rough stuff, otherwise he was towed out by one vehicle. No tow truck could have gotten him out without being towed himself in a couple of spots due to slick mud and being held back by an anchor (Xterra). It was not a difficult trail except where we had to hook him up to two vehicles (it was very muddy and the tow vehicle got stuck). I was not impressed by "limp mode". Personally you'd be better off training a monkey to work the throttle before you could "limp" out. That centre console refrigerator would certainly come in handy with snacks for the monkey. LOL

Again, my whole point from the start of this thread is that the more e-gadgets you have, the better chance of something failing. It doesn't have to be a catastrophic event, but it might cost you getting out of the situation, or at the very least a cost to remedy. Simple is better IMO, that all I am saying. For those who post pics of newer vehicles doing difficult stuff, not once did I say they couldn't. Nice pics by the way.

Cheers

 

Let's remember Lex's are just toy's with different badges. I am sure they would whip an H2.

I do agree with denpacc. The more gadgets the more failures. When you are 200-300km's away from a paved road (most of CANADA) you need to know your truck will work. My biggest fear about "extreme" wheelin is electronic failure, just can't fix it on the trail. THAT SAID all of the electronics still work on my 91 runner (Power everything) but nothing important to wheelin.

 

E-gadgets, GRRRRRRRR. My rear window ecm failed for the second time in one year. Not only can they be problematic on the trails, they can get costly to fix too! My opinion of e-gadgets just went down even further...

 

Here is a pic of the switches if anybody is interested.
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/im...8_lx570_09.jpg