SARtruck

Howdy! from Wickenburg, Arizona. I live out here in the upper Sonora Desert, really love my lil' ol' truck.

The truck is a 1992 deluxe single cab, with a 22RE 4 cyl/5 spd, 103" WB, 31/10.50X15 BFG A/T KO tires on 2001 factory alloy 7X15" wheels.

Stock suspension, upgraded shocks, stock bump stops, urethane droop stops on front.

I use it for Search and Rescue operations and training, and general off roading.

I like to run a quick pace (BG is unlimited off road racecar), but within limitations, and haven't broken any suspension parts in 50+K miles of bad roads and good trails, including pre-running the Parker 425 loop.

I haven't had a front shock leak, but I have had two pair on the rear both start leaking. I think it is caused by the shocks topping out too hard, as the shock is fully extended at full droop in the rear.

Here's a short video of the suspension from a fender cam POV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW5ZF...ylnG5-IYvtxBnR

Manufacturer's cargo weight rating is 1100 lbs.

Usual load is two occupants and gear, around 325 lbs, plus a plastic bed box full of equipment (like tools, hi-lift and hydraulic jacks, shovel, etc.), around 200 lbs (WAG), plus a small cooler. Call it 550 lbs total.

Heavy load would replace small cooler with two larger (a 48 and a 52 quart) coolers and camping gear (including chairs and a roomy tent) for two, maybe some fire wood if there's room. Call it 300 additional.

Which makes for a total heavy cargo weight of 850 lbs, 250 lbs less than stock capacity.

But 90+% of the time it will be carrying closer to 550.

I'm generally happy with the truck's performance, but would like to address a couple issues: clearance and ride.

I don't want to go to a larger tire, I don't want to re-gear.

I hit my front skid plate and cross member more often than I'd like.

But I'm not looking for much lift.

What do you think of installing 1.5" ball joint spacers up front?

See any issues with grinding off some of the UCA so the 31" tires won't rub? I'd prefer not to run any wheel spacers or change wheels.

I currently run my stock torsions just a tad to the soft side of stock, with about 12.5" from rim to fender lip.

I'm thinking I could continue to run the torsions at a similar setting, with the BJ spacers letting the LCA's run at a slightly steeper angle to generate the 1.5" of lift, just enough to clear most of the rocks I'm hitting, I hope.

I have a set of thicker SAW torsion bars, but I don't see a need to try them out yet. When/if I do, I would back off the pre-load more, but I think they would tend to be too stiff.

Would the BJ spacers give the truck 1.5" inches of lift at ride height, while maintaining a lower torsion pre-load setting?

Will a diff drop be required?

In the rear, what do you think makes the best overall performance?

I'm thinking any choice is going to yield 1.5 - 3" of rear lift. The less the better, IMHO.

(BTW, my truck was hit in the right side before I purchased it and the PO goober-welded the right spring perch in incorrectly, so I have a slightly altered WB on that side.)

I'm considering a pair of OME medium duty springs, or either a set of 63" Chevy C-10 or 57" Ford F-150 springs, maybe utilizing the Sky kit (w/shock hoop and shocks) or perhaps Wabbit has something similar. Or ?

Concerns with the OME springs are that they will be too stiff, and I have to cut off and replace spring hanger anyway.

Concerns with the Chevy springs are what combo of leaves offers best ride for my application, rear departure angle issues (though I currently run my spare tire in stock location and only occasionally drag it or the step bumper brackets) and spring wrap problems.

Concerns with the Ford springs are what combo of leaves of what years' F-150's would offer the best ride for my application, will the Ford springs work with the Sky Chevy conversion kit, and can I use the stock rear shackle location.

Concerns with both are driveshaft/pinion angle and vibration problems.

Or do you have any other suggestions, like cutting off the rear half of the stock overload leaf or ???, short of linking it?

I'm looking for a better ride and better articulation.

Accept my apologies for such a long first post, as I look forward to your responses.

Thanks in advance!

rattlewagon

Jesus...Ill take a crack at this. Answers are in RED.

Alot of what your asking about has been answered numerous time.

Good Luck and welcome to YotaTech!

SARtruck

Thanks for the reply! I'm not such a nube I didn't see your responses in red, but you cleared up a few questions and concerns.

I've had the truck a decade, have finally decided I'm going to keep it.

I've been reading a lot of threads, including the two you provided, for years on this site and others, posts going back ten years and more. Just getting through the Pirate4X4 FAQ on Chevy springs took days.

And, not knowing the posters, nor their use of their trucks, makes a lot of responses suspect for my particular application.

Plus, I'm looking for current thinking and technology, in the context of a twenty year old truck's updating for my use.

I'm overwhelmed just by the number of results one generates by searching for just [63" Chevy springs] on YotaTech.

And, in the off-road racing world, a fellow named Matt Helton campaigned a similar truck to mine, built for racing with long Deaver springs riding on foot-long rear shackles that were hung from above the frame rails.

He won a class championship against V8 domestics in that truck.

What are the negatives to a BJ spacer lift, besides my diminutive wife's increased difficulty at ingress and egress?

What could I do to make a "bastard" spring pack out of stock leaves?

I do have access to a Toyota recycling facility, though it's 70 miles away.

rattlewagon

A bastard leaf pack is just a mix and match leaf pack ( couple leafs from each set) kind of thing. Its an alternative to an add a leaf. Instead of one larger thicker leaf, you add a few thin ones. Im currently running this setup on my 87. Stock 87 leaf pack was saggy when I got it, put 2 leafs on each side from a 3rd gen pickup pack and it lifted it right back up to stock and is surprisingly flexy for what it is. Combined with a slightly longer shackle is a pretty nice ride.

Craigslist is a great place to find parts. As well as local off road clubs.

You want technology....link it.

Negs to the BJ spacers is the upper A arm clearance, your factory A arm geometry is now off, CVs are fine as long as you dont crank the bars and put spacers in.

SARtruck

Didn't I say I didn't want to link it? I'll try and ask better questions.

What clearance issue are you referring to above?

Is up travel diminished since UCA is at a lesser angle than stock?

(BTW: I usually drive on a combination of dirt, rocks and sand, along old mining, ranching, and historic roads, trails and washes, usually < 35 MPH, but little rock crawling per se, not easily negotiable by my truck with its stock gearing)

rattlewagon

Your questions are good ones, some even over my head... most dont ask this much and just "do it"

You did say you didnt want to link it, but you also want technology...leafs are defiantly not new technology...

Clarence between the UCA and inside wall of the tire. Not normally a concern unless your using a wide tire on a stick rim.

When not used for lift, it allows more up travel (as much as the bumpstop will allow, low profile ones are available) because the torsion bar isnt working as hard to lift the truck. Where as if you only cranked your torsion bars, that UCA would never see the bump stop.

You seem to have done your research...so what do you think is the best for your truck? Its your truck you know it and how it gets used best.

SARtruck

Well, today's leaf technology, then.

I think I'll follow my plan for the front end, and add the spacers, cutting the UCA back where the tire comes closest. I'll adjust the torsions for ride, then discover if I added enough ground clearance.

It's the rear springs that have me most perplexed: there's lots of options, which one suits me best?

And it should be easier to figure it out with my fingers than with a torch or wrench.

That's what I'm trying to do.

(BTW: My stock spring packs consist of two long leaves and one medium length leaf in the same thickness, with one overload spring that is thicker, especially at U-bolts.)

I think I want to soften the ride and wonder if perhaps a hydraulic bump stop might be in order to minimize bed jounce?

Thanks again!

phildelfino

unfortunately, creating your own leaf packs is trial and error. start looking for take off leaf springs when someone is jacking their vehicle up. cheaper that way, or junk yards. keep the upper 2 leafs and look to add more thinner leafs down to the overload. using chevy or ford leafs like you said takes a kit and moving the mounting points. chevy and ford will add lift and droop and with enough leafs in the pack give you better load carrying. try sticking with what you have and try adding a thinner one on each side with new centering pins required as well as longer shocks. in short, experiment if you got the extra leafs to stick in there.

SARtruck

I'm not trying to make the rear springs stiffer or carry a heavier load, I'm trying to do the opposite with a 1-2" lift as well.

When I look at the spring chart, the 2WD springs lack the medium leaf, but are rated at the same cargo capacity. They MIGHT give a better ride, but probably would lower the truck.

I don't understand how adding more stock spring leaves could result in a softer riding spring pack.

Jeep XJ Cherokee springs are a very similar length, look like they would extend WB 1/2 inch if perches are left in stock position, and are very soft, but would they provide enough lift?

For 4-5 inches additional spring length, I'm not sure the Fords are worth the work, still wondering about Chevy or OME springs...or any combo of stock and whatever leaves, shackles, etc., necessary to reach my goal.

Thanks!

rattlewagon

In red again. Haha. They all do about the same thing, just pick one and do it.

You worry to much.

SARtruck

I've always found re-arched springs initially stiffer, then sagging back quickly if done by the common cold process. BTDT.

I understand that more leaves = more flex. All things being equal, which they are not.

I'm tending to agree with your recommendation of the Chevy springs over the OME, with the departure angle issue seemingly more a problem on bobbed 'crawlers.

Now, how to determine which Chevy springs? Looks like the '88-98 3/1 pack would offer the most flex for the least cargo capacity, if I am understanding correctly.

http://littlekeylime.com/MrN/mrnimages/leaf_springs.png

Thanks!

yotaman85

when you add leaves make sure they are thinner then the ones on the leaf already. for instense, my old national springs on my 7s truck had 10 leafs and provided incredible travel both up and down. also try to remember that when the speed go up, you actully need a little stiffer spring to control the tires and stop it from bottoming out, if you bottom out the rear end hard enough at 50mph it tends to send the nose of your truck in the wrong direction.

also make sure you have the best shocks you can possibly afford, it will make as much if not more of a differance in how the truck stays poise. good luck!

SARtruck

The stock set up kicks bad with little up travel occurring, the whole rear end sprung weight overcome by the spring and unsprung weight.

That's why I was thinking a softer spring with a set of maybe, 14 inch Bilsteins might settle the rear down.

I think the only time the rear bump stops see any action is when the truck is crossed up.

On the LT suspension of the racecar, I preferred springs just stiff enough to maintain ride height, then controlled suspension action through damping.

But that was 20+" of travel, controlled by a coilover/bypass combo.

I have considered installing hydraulic bump stops in place of the stockers after the spring/shock work.

What did you run on your 7s? Ever race Barstow? How'd it do there?

Thanks!

BigBearSteve

Go with heavier torsion bars and 3" lift springs, you'll be OK.

My truck runs that setup with Bilsteins and works great.

SARtruck

Should I still be able to find a pair of 88-98 Chevy 1/2 ton springs for $80-100?

rattlewagon

That seems to be the going rate. Craigslist or a junkyard is probably your best bet.

2012MongolRally

Does anyone know if SARtruck went with making a new leaf-spring pack. I know that I am trying to revive a more than year-old post, but I didn't want to make a new one since this thread is almost exactly represents what my truck is like (follow my build thread for more details).

I am looking to run a 31x10.50 wheel on 15x7 steelie rims and I am wondering whether I will have enough wheel well clearance as well as not over extend the shocks during my rally. I know this has to be a common upgrade for most guys to go to a 31x10.50 tire, but with 10000 mile rally ahead of me I want to make sure I have this common mod correct so I am not getting toed to the finish line.

Thanks

SARtruck

31.50x15s fit fine with no rubbing on my stock set up, that does get as crossed up as it can.