Toyota techs please reply: Intermittent Starting issues with 3.0
08-03-2015, 06:39 PM
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Toyota techs please reply: Intermittent Starting issues with 3.0
Ok I should start by saying that I am a long time lurker not a post whore. I have owned land cruisers for years because they are a family vehicle. I own two and my brother owns three. Between the two of us we own. Three FJ60s, an 80, 2 first gen pickups 4wd I myself own three 82 2wds (prerunner project) a 4Runner first and second gen. A 99 and 09 Tacoma. Plus a 86 one ton, 86 tercel, 94 camry, and half a dozen others. Sorry can't remember all the year models. It's generally easier to ask what we don't have. ��
- my question is for the yotatechs about the intermittent starting problem on the 3.0. And yes I have searched that is why my post count is so low.
- I'm not looking for hearsay any more I have tried all that. I have searched every thread and tried everything.
- My question is ..... Is there a Toyota tech that has been paid Toyota money to fix this problem that is willing to help a brother out. Can we fix this once and for all?
- my question is for the yotatechs about the intermittent starting problem on the 3.0. And yes I have searched that is why my post count is so low.
- I'm not looking for hearsay any more I have tried all that. I have searched every thread and tried everything.
- My question is ..... Is there a Toyota tech that has been paid Toyota money to fix this problem that is willing to help a brother out. Can we fix this once and for all?
Last edited by dropzone; 08-05-2015 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Edited for clarity
08-04-2015, 08:27 AM
#2
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Do you have a starting problem as in the engine won't start or a starter problem as in the starter won't run?
Nobody knows what you have read and tried so it might help to explain.
Nobody knows what you have read and tried so it might help to explain.
08-04-2015, 03:26 PM
#4
A problem well-stated is a problem half-solved.
Like mentioned above, pls describe your problem in details. Do you want us to give you a list of dozens of things to check everything on the truck, or only those you have not checked for yourself?
What have checked ? What do you here, smell, see, feel?
Like mentioned above, pls describe your problem in details. Do you want us to give you a list of dozens of things to check everything on the truck, or only those you have not checked for yourself?
What have checked ? What do you here, smell, see, feel?
08-04-2015, 04:30 PM
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Come on, guys. landrunner has already "... searched every thread and tried everything." Now all he wants is ".. a Toyota tech that has been paid Toyota money" to look at his truck for him.
I think the place you find those guys is called a "Toyota Dealership."
I think the place you find those guys is called a "Toyota Dealership."
08-05-2015, 05:21 AM
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08-05-2015, 06:07 AM
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Cleaning the Starter Relay contacts can help, replacing the contacts in the starter is another thing to look into. Make sure all connections are cleaned well.
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08-05-2015, 12:40 PM
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So in a effort to side step all of the standard "search noob" responses it seems I did inadvertently leave out some info. For those who have never experienced this intermittent issue it is just that. Some times I turn the key and it just clicks usually after a few try's it will turn over though. When this first began I thought it may just be a power issue so I replace the alternator. Battery and starter. After that I read about redundant wiring associated with the starter relay and tried the modification associated with that fix to no effect. I read one post while grasping at straws that said the problem could be related to a worn out clutch master. After a recent clutch, master, slave, and hydraulic hose replacement the problem still persists. The clutch start switch under the pedal has been deleted and the ignition is new. All relays that I have located and checked have been functional. As stated before I have read every thread I can find on this topic on this forum and others and even tracked down an old episode of Cartalk where an overheating starter was discussed as a possible culprit. which doesn't seem to be the case in this scenario because the problem persists regardless of climate conditions or driving patterns. As this problem has been going on for about three years I am sure there is something I am forgetting. If this is not enough info to give you an idea of what I facing then I will do my best to clarify. My initial intention was not to ruffle any feathers but to attract the attention of some one who has actually dealt with this problem successfully in the hope that they would be willing to share their experiences. Not trying to come as a jerk I've just become increasingly frustrated with this particular guessing game. I appreciate all of the replays so far and I am holding out on the dealership as a last resort simply because I hate to think of the shop rates involved with what could potentially be days of electrical diagnosis.
08-05-2015, 01:00 PM
#10
Too many words... but...
Try this.
Exactly which fix is that? (Need to know in case you did a fix of someone who guessed and got lucky.)
How exactly did you do that?
When you say Click, exactly what clicks?
Good! Those are the ones that will guess and make you pay for it - wrong guess or correct guess.
The Stealers will take days so they can take your money. If you listen to us, and, knowing that we are miles away, answer our questions clearly, it woud only take hours. And it will be free.
Try this.
How exactly did you do that?
When you say Click, exactly what clicks?
... I am holding out on the dealership...
what could potentially be days of electrical diagnosis.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 08-05-2015 at 01:09 PM.
08-05-2015, 01:32 PM
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OK, let's break this down.
There are 4 likely causes of "click" but no cranking action when turning the key to "start".
- (1) Bad battery or bad battery/ground connections, resulting in inadequate voltage to the starter.
- (2) The RAD4Runner relay miswiring problem that occurred on vehicles from about 1988 to 1991 or so.
- (3) Internal electrical problems (bad brushes) in the starter.
- (4) A mechanical problem between the starter gear and the flywheel that causes the gears to lock up and refuse to turn.
So, how do you tell what the problem is?
- (1) can be diagnosed easily with a multimeter when the problem is occuring. Simply measure the voltage at the battery, and then progress on down to the starter as someone is holding the key in "start". Sooner or later you'll find a place where the voltage drops dramatically from around 11-12 volts to probably less than about 5. You've just found your bad connection. Remember that ground connections, particulary between the battery and the engine block, are just as important as the hot side. Measure on both sides of those as well.
- (2) Sounds like you may have done RAD4Runner's fix already. If not, you can check the voltage at the starter solenoid (the small wire to the starter, not the big one) while holding the key at start. The voltage should be above 11 volts. If not, you may have this issue.
- (3) is an internal starter electrical issue. Since you've replaced the starter, chances are that's not the issue.
- (4) will show up as severe dimming of the lights when you turn the key to "start", because the starter is stalled and is taking maximum current. Turning the engine over either with a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt or by rocking the vehicle while in gear (assuming a manual) to move the engagement point of the starter and flywheel will often unstick it. Several members have reported that some replacement aftermarket starters do not properly engage the flywheel and exhibit this problem. A bad tooth on the flywheel can also cause this kind of issue.
There are 4 likely causes of "click" but no cranking action when turning the key to "start".
- (1) Bad battery or bad battery/ground connections, resulting in inadequate voltage to the starter.
- (2) The RAD4Runner relay miswiring problem that occurred on vehicles from about 1988 to 1991 or so.
- (3) Internal electrical problems (bad brushes) in the starter.
- (4) A mechanical problem between the starter gear and the flywheel that causes the gears to lock up and refuse to turn.
So, how do you tell what the problem is?
- (1) can be diagnosed easily with a multimeter when the problem is occuring. Simply measure the voltage at the battery, and then progress on down to the starter as someone is holding the key in "start". Sooner or later you'll find a place where the voltage drops dramatically from around 11-12 volts to probably less than about 5. You've just found your bad connection. Remember that ground connections, particulary between the battery and the engine block, are just as important as the hot side. Measure on both sides of those as well.
- (2) Sounds like you may have done RAD4Runner's fix already. If not, you can check the voltage at the starter solenoid (the small wire to the starter, not the big one) while holding the key at start. The voltage should be above 11 volts. If not, you may have this issue.
- (3) is an internal starter electrical issue. Since you've replaced the starter, chances are that's not the issue.
- (4) will show up as severe dimming of the lights when you turn the key to "start", because the starter is stalled and is taking maximum current. Turning the engine over either with a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt or by rocking the vehicle while in gear (assuming a manual) to move the engagement point of the starter and flywheel will often unstick it. Several members have reported that some replacement aftermarket starters do not properly engage the flywheel and exhibit this problem. A bad tooth on the flywheel can also cause this kind of issue.
08-05-2015, 01:35 PM
#12
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So in a effort to side step all of the standard "search noob" responses it seems I did inadvertently leave out some info. For those who have never experienced this intermittent issue it is just that. Some times I turn the key and it just clicks usually after a few try's it will turn over though. When this first began I thought it may just be a power issue so I replace the alternator. Battery and starter. After that I read about redundant wiring associated with the starter relay and tried the modification associated with that fix to no effect. I read one post while grasping at straws that said the problem could be related to a worn out clutch master. After a recent clutch, master, slave, and hydraulic hose replacement the problem still persists. The clutch start switch under the pedal has been deleted and the ignition is new. All relays that I have located and checked have been functional. As stated before I have read every thread I can find on this topic on this forum and others and even tracked down an old episode of Cartalk where an overheating starter was discussed as a possible culprit. which doesn't seem to be the case in this scenario because the problem persists regardless of climate conditions or driving patterns. As this problem has been going on for about three years I am sure there is something I am forgetting. If this is not enough info to give you an idea of what I facing then I will do my best to clarify. My initial intention was not to ruffle any feathers but to attract the attention of some one who has actually dealt with this problem successfully in the hope that they would be willing to share their experiences. Not trying to come as a jerk I've just become increasingly frustrated with this particular guessing game. I appreciate all of the replays so far and I am holding out on the dealership as a last resort simply because I hate to think of the shop rates involved with what could potentially be days of electrical diagnosis.
Im no help with the problem though...
Last edited by rattlewagon; 08-05-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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08-05-2015, 07:50 PM
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wow , I read this guys first post a few days ago and it was a disaster as far as clarity and attitude . Question : Dropzone , do you routinely go in and alter people's posts for clarity and succinctness?
Not trying to put you on the spot , just didn't know admins were that hands-on...
Not trying to put you on the spot , just didn't know admins were that hands-on...
08-05-2015, 08:51 PM
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OK, let's break this down.
There are 4 likely causes of "click" but no cranking action when turning the key to "start".
- (1) Bad battery or bad battery/ground connections, resulting in inadequate voltage to the starter.
- (2) The RAD4Runner relay miswiring problem that occurred on vehicles from about 1988 to 1991 or so.
- (3) Internal electrical problems (bad brushes) in the starter.
- (4) A mechanical problem between the starter gear and the flywheel that causes the gears to lock up and refuse to turn.
So, how do you tell what the problem is?
- (1) can be diagnosed easily with a multimeter when the problem is occuring. Simply measure the voltage at the battery, and then progress on down to the starter as someone is holding the key in "start". Sooner or later you'll find a place where the voltage drops dramatically from around 11-12 volts to probably less than about 5. You've just found your bad connection. Remember that ground connections, particulary between the battery and the engine block, are just as important as the hot side. Measure on both sides of those as well.
- (2) Sounds like you may have done RAD4Runner's fix already. If not, you can check the voltage at the starter solenoid (the small wire to the starter, not the big one) while holding the key at start. The voltage should be above 11 volts. If not, you may have this issue.
- (3) is an internal starter electrical issue. Since you've replaced the starter, chances are that's not the issue.
- (4) will show up as severe dimming of the lights when you turn the key to "start", because the starter is stalled and is taking maximum current. Turning the engine over either with a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt or by rocking the vehicle while in gear (assuming a manual) to move the engagement point of the starter and flywheel will often unstick it. Several members have reported that some replacement aftermarket starters do not properly engage the flywheel and exhibit this problem. A bad tooth on the flywheel can also cause this kind of issue.
There are 4 likely causes of "click" but no cranking action when turning the key to "start".
- (1) Bad battery or bad battery/ground connections, resulting in inadequate voltage to the starter.
- (2) The RAD4Runner relay miswiring problem that occurred on vehicles from about 1988 to 1991 or so.
- (3) Internal electrical problems (bad brushes) in the starter.
- (4) A mechanical problem between the starter gear and the flywheel that causes the gears to lock up and refuse to turn.
So, how do you tell what the problem is?
- (1) can be diagnosed easily with a multimeter when the problem is occuring. Simply measure the voltage at the battery, and then progress on down to the starter as someone is holding the key in "start". Sooner or later you'll find a place where the voltage drops dramatically from around 11-12 volts to probably less than about 5. You've just found your bad connection. Remember that ground connections, particulary between the battery and the engine block, are just as important as the hot side. Measure on both sides of those as well.
- (2) Sounds like you may have done RAD4Runner's fix already. If not, you can check the voltage at the starter solenoid (the small wire to the starter, not the big one) while holding the key at start. The voltage should be above 11 volts. If not, you may have this issue.
- (3) is an internal starter electrical issue. Since you've replaced the starter, chances are that's not the issue.
- (4) will show up as severe dimming of the lights when you turn the key to "start", because the starter is stalled and is taking maximum current. Turning the engine over either with a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt or by rocking the vehicle while in gear (assuming a manual) to move the engagement point of the starter and flywheel will often unstick it. Several members have reported that some replacement aftermarket starters do not properly engage the flywheel and exhibit this problem. A bad tooth on the flywheel can also cause this kind of issue.
oMG thank you I will reply back as soon as I check everything on your list.
08-05-2015, 09:18 PM
#18
You need to be realistic about what dealerships and their techs are going to do. Sometimes there is a better part or a better way to do something. They are interested in selling their parts and doing repairs by their own methods...and that is not necessarily a bad thing in most situations. In general dealerships do superior maintenance. However what the dealership says shouldn't prevail over common sense. And sometimes they are reluctant to admit there is problem because it makes the company look bad. This applies to dealerships in general. Techs frequently have more difficulty solving very intermittent problems. They are all about fixing something quick and moving on to the next vehicle...that is how they make money. So I guess the question is do want to fix the problem or do you want to change dealership culture. I suspect your problem is very intermittent and that is causing you a lot of grief. If I'm right about this there are a couple of things you can do to make some progress on this problem. One is to install a push button under the hood to energize the starter solenoid. You want to wire it so you can start the engine with the key or the button. There is a thread with photos I think on this forum somewhere. The other thing you can do if you haven't already is to upgrade your battery cables to larger, good quality ones. I would aim for size 2 awg or larger.
Last edited by chuckross1957; 08-07-2015 at 08:40 AM.
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