Thanks for the link. I'll give it a shot this weekend.

 

OK I completely re-did the grounds, and battery clamp. Upped to a 4 gauge wire to the body, etc. Did positive terminal as well, and lo and behold still same problems.

I have a hunch a clogged idle air control valve is the suspect. Beyond that, i feel that theres air getting in as well. I've tried and tried and tried to find a vacuum leak, but cannot find anything. I'm freaking out

 

Baja,

Have you swapped in an ECU, with a known good one? I was having some weird issues and chased the problem to the ecu, mine looked fine connections were all good. I just happened to find one locally that someone let me try and this was my problem...ended up finding one with the exact same part number for 40 bucks....just an idea, good luck

 

Hey OrRunner, I think that will be my next thing after the IACV. I was about to buy one from DeathCougar but he sort of told me that it would be a waste of time haha.

The reason I think its mechanical is that when I turn on the car, or turn it off, the engine does a weird stutter, and the whole car shakes. Nothing is very smooth about how it turns on and off.

 

How many miles on the engine?

How do your plugs look , color?

You have a mis in your video, its not bad, but its there.
Does it smell rich?

Have you had a tailpipe/smog test. The numbers might tell you somthing.

I would do a leak down test ( I know you have good compression), but it would be interesting to see if you have some borderline leaky valves. A leakdown test will often show problems that dont show up doing a regular comp test.

 

Hey Sam,

Miles: 150k
Plugs look great, I think I just took some pictures the other day of another (new) set of plugs, cause I sort of thought I might have had a bad one.


Yeah I hear that miss. Thats whats been pissing me off. I can't figure it out.

My smog test a few months ago... Hardly any emissions. Everything looked really good. I couldn't believe it. I had just changed the cat.

The head is only 1-2 years old. I should probably do a leak down test, but dont have an air compressor.

 

That all sounds and looks good . Before you sell your truck, take it somewhere that has good diagnostic equip. and have them hook up a scanner and a scope to see whats really happening. You could have vacuum leaks , but those usually only affect idle ( at full throttle so much is entering the engine it negates minor vacuum leaks) and if they were large enough to affect full throttle the car would not idle at all.

 

your plugs look a little on the white side ( hard to tell in the picture)
What was your HC in the smog?

 

Hang in there. You've done 10x more to your motor than I ever have. Does it ever backfire when you're shutting it off? I changed a motor on a little car once and I tried to punch the cat out but didn't quite get it done.. It'd run for a little bit then bog down and backfire and stuff. Just a random thought.

 

Sorry I didn't read through the entire thread, so if you've already checked this then please disregard this post.

 

X2!

Please forgive the LONGGGGGGG post about to come, lol;


Baja, I'm so sorry you're still having these issues... Just read through the 40+ pages of my troubleshooting thread or build thread.... you'll see that I CAN RELATE! lol.

My issue with crazy idle, wonky miss, very much all over the place moods the motor would have(the mechanic who finally figured it out called it a "major rumble in the jungle"), bouncing vacuum gauge needle(it would bounce violently, rapidly, back and forth over an inch!)....led to my CAM being bad. Not saying it is your issue, not in the slightest... Rather, my point is that, as I think most on this site would agree, I TRIED EVERYTHING, and never gave up...but finally gave in and pulled into the most reputable 22re Guru I've met in CA to this day. Japanese Auto Center in Torrance, CA.

My reason for mentioning this, Baja, is because, within 20 minutes, FOR FREE, he diagnosed my issues by using, first, his high-tech multi-meter and timing light with RPM adjustment, AFM diagnosis tool, and finally, what told most of the story, .... PROPANE! Yes, it's an old trick used by Helicopter and other aviation mechanics in the 60's and 70's....... but for OBD1 and even OBD2 trucks.... it can tell nearly EVERYTHING that's going wrong within minutes, sometimes seconds. What he did was, had me unplug the fuel pump, then he jacked into a Plenum Port with the Propane and adapter, then started pumping it in, while measuring the Air/Fuel mixture with other methods, until he got it running, just how it was with Gasoline.... He then told me, straight out, "IT'S THE CAM, ...could be valve train, but I'd bet the CAM, with everything being new in the valve train other than the CAM...I'll bet you dollars to donuts.....". He explained that, when you run on propane, you're taking nearly the entire EFI system out of the picture.... thus, as he said, "If it runs better, under propane, or all out fine....it's usually mechanical, because we've taken 1. Faulty Injector or Harness connection therein 2. Most Sensors related to fuel/air mixture and 3. I've tested the Ignition system, which is simple, while getting the air/fuel mixture adequate with the propane...... and IT'S STILL MISSING, just the same, just as bad. This means that your CAM is not giving the proper duration, and/or is sticking to the lifters due to bad ridges on the CAM, etc.... It can sometimes be valves, but I hear no pinging, no backfire, misfire, and it's running fine under load, which means, to me, that whatever is sticking up along the cam/lifters is negligible and/or can't resist when under heavy compression and valve train/Rocker action". He also hooked up a vacuum gauge and showed me that the needle at idle, and certain points in the range of things, was bouncing like CRAZY. "That, too, is indicative of 'TOP END' issues... Very unlikely Vacuum leak, as all your hoses are new, routing is correct, and new gaskets, surfaces, .....torquing seems to be right...and even with a leak, it would not bounce like this".

He also adjusted the propane/air mixture, until it was exactly what the Motor would want......and the thing just about jumped off the mounts! lol. He showed me that, "With a bad CAM, and sometimes sticking or bend valve(not hearing that with your truck), you're NEVER going to get the timing right.... and in order to get yours running even a lil smoother, I had to get the timing to 45 Degrees Before TDC for it to work properly with the AIR/Fuel per FSM...THIS IS NOT caused by electrical or fuel issues....it's TIMING WAY OFF, with everything set correctly therein, due to 'MECHANICAL FAILURE', somewhere in the engine... in your case, the CAM." He and his machinist buddies all gathered round, 5 of them, were arguing, "no, it's valves", etc. etc.,..... HE WAS RIGHT, ....It was the CAM. When I replaced it with the 261, the issue almost COMPLETELY went away! (I say almost because, well, I actually DO HAVE some voltage issues, like mentioned above in your thread).... My voltage needle bounces a lil, with just turn signal and brake lights, for instance.... so I KNOW, with a brand new Denso Alt, etc., I must have some issues with Chassis Wiring.(I'm working on tracking it down as I build my rig).

Considering you've spent months, like I had, pulling out your hair and checking through a process of elimination that would surpass the Space Shuttle, and still aren't sure of the problem.... I just wondered if you'd be interested in taking your truck to this guy. I know, it's 2 hours.....but I think it's fair to say that's NOTHING compared to the amount of time and frustration you've dealt with, because of this issue. I can't promise, neither would he, that he'll 'solve it'....but with this guy? IT'S VERY LIKELY, ...he's done HUNDREDS of these, on the diagnostic end, and built several, as well. So, it's just a suggestion, and I'd be glad to pick you up and go get lunch or something if he needs a couple hours to get to it. Usually, if you call ahead, he'll give you a time to come, and in my case, and 2 others that I've sent there(both of which were REALLY odd problematic running situations), he'll jump right on it as he knows it can only be so many things....and in all 3 cases over the last 3 months, with these CRAZY odd problems...... He solved it. Can't say it would be free, either.... but how much time and money have you thrown at this thing, already? And remember, ...selling this and going with another, ...well, like with my rig now...that can OFTEN lead to just a brand new set of headaches.

Just a thought.... PM me if interested, K?

Mark

 

PS> Far as I've read, EVERYWHERE... you're running to hot, MOST DEFINITELY. 1/3rd on the gauge is about the standard for any 22re. If I'm not mistaken, the Thermostat(OEM) rating is 176* on the dot.

And, far as the IACV......mine was bad, and no matter how clean I got it.....it didn't matter. The IACV, if it's the same as mine, works via that Metallic arm in there(which you know, I understand that, lol)... But where the Arm fails is the bushing/valve that it's actually opening. Eventually, no amount of cleaning will help it to 'idle up' your rig. I tried a very clean looking used one... same thing. Put in a new one..SOLVED. However, reading your stuff....it appears to idle up, just fine, when cold.

And one more thing......EXACTLY what mine would do... Chunky for a few seconds... then smooth out just fine throughout open loop cycle, then going into CLOSED LOOP upon oper. temp..... HOLY CRAPOLI, 'IT'S ON' mode would set in, lol. Tried EVERYTHING, including throwing money at it(learned my lesson on that,lol), testing EVERY COMPONENT, including in depth testing of the ECU, Ign system, EFI system, Emissions, blocking off EGR, testing BVSV, etc., etc., etc., .....NOTHING would reveal what it was using conventional methods.

Best wishes, Baja... I wish I had more time to read through everything up to here..... Just seems you've tried EVERYTHING, to be honest, and you're still at POINT A!.... AGAIN,...I CAN RELATE!

Mark

 

If you have time, could you post a P.O.E.(process of elimination) list? Just post, numbered, everything you've tried.

Tested or Replaced(noted new or swapped out);

1. New Coolant Temp sensor
2. New OEM 02 Sensor
3. Cleaned Throttle body thoroughly
4. Injectors serviced at "..."

Just a thought... it's a lot to read through and a lot to put together as to what you've tried/verified/ruled out.

 

X2!

Please forgive the LONGGGGGGG post about to come, lol;


Baja, I'm so sorry you're still having these issues... Just read through the 40+ pages of my troubleshooting thread or build thread.... you'll see that I CAN RELATE! lol.

My issue with crazy idle, wonky miss, very much all over the place moods the motor would have(the mechanic who finally figured it out called it a "major rumble in the jungle"), bouncing vacuum gauge needle(it would bounce violently, rapidly, back and forth over an inch!)....led to my CAM being bad. Not saying it is your issue, not in the slightest... Rather, my point is that, as I think most on this site would agree, I TRIED EVERYTHING, and never gave up...but finally gave in and pulled into the most reputable 22re Guru I've met in CA to this day. Japanese Auto Center in Torrance, CA.

My reason for mentioning this, Baja, is because, within 20 minutes, FOR FREE, he diagnosed my issues by using, first, his high-tech multi-meter and timing light with RPM adjustment, AFM diagnosis tool, and finally, what told most of the story, .... PROPANE! Yes, it's an old trick used by Helicopter and other aviation mechanics in the 60's and 70's....... but for OBD1 and even OBD2 trucks.... it can tell nearly EVERYTHING that's going wrong within minutes, sometimes seconds. What he did was, had me unplug the fuel pump, then he jacked into a Plenum Port with the Propane and adapter, then started pumping it in, while measuring the Air/Fuel mixture with other methods, until he got it running, just how it was with Gasoline.... He then told me, straight out, "IT'S THE CAM, ...could be valve train, but I'd bet the CAM, with everything being new in the valve train other than the CAM...I'll bet you dollars to donuts.....". He explained that, when you run on propane, you're taking nearly the entire EFI system out of the picture.... thus, as he said, "If it runs better, under propane, or all out fine....it's usually mechanical, because we've taken 1. Faulty Injector or Harness connection therein 2. Most Sensors related to fuel/air mixture and 3. I've tested the Ignition system, which is simple, while getting the air/fuel mixture adequate with the propane...... and IT'S STILL MISSING, just the same, just as bad. This means that your CAM is not giving the proper duration, and/or is sticking to the lifters due to bad ridges on the CAM, etc.... It can sometimes be valves, but I hear no pinging, no backfire, misfire, and it's running fine under load, which means, to me, that whatever is sticking up along the cam/lifters is negligible and/or can't resist when under heavy compression and valve train/Rocker action". He also hooked up a vacuum gauge and showed me that the needle at idle, and certain points in the range of things, was bouncing like CRAZY. "That, too, is indicative of 'TOP END' issues... Very unlikely Vacuum leak, as all your hoses are new, routing is correct, and new gaskets, surfaces, .....torquing seems to be right...and even with a leak, it would not bounce like this".

He also adjusted the propane/air mixture, until it was exactly what the Motor would want......and the thing just about jumped off the mounts! lol. He showed me that, "With a bad CAM, and sometimes sticking or bend valve(not hearing that with your truck), you're NEVER going to get the timing right.... and in order to get yours running even a lil smoother, I had to get the timing to 45 Degrees Before TDC for it to work properly with the AIR/Fuel per FSM...THIS IS NOT caused by electrical or fuel issues....it's TIMING WAY OFF, with everything set correctly therein, due to 'MECHANICAL FAILURE', somewhere in the engine... in your case, the CAM." He and his machinist buddies all gathered round, 5 of them, were arguing, "no, it's valves", etc. etc.,..... HE WAS RIGHT, ....It was the CAM. When I replaced it with the 261, the issue almost COMPLETELY went away! (I say almost because, well, I actually DO HAVE some voltage issues, like mentioned above in your thread).... My voltage needle bounces a lil, with just turn signal and brake lights, for instance.... so I KNOW, with a brand new Denso Alt, etc., I must have some issues with Chassis Wiring.(I'm working on tracking it down as I build my rig).

Considering you've spent months, like I had, pulling out your hair and checking through a process of elimination that would surpass the Space Shuttle, and still aren't sure of the problem.... I just wondered if you'd be interested in taking your truck to this guy. I know, it's 2 hours.....but I think it's fair to say that's NOTHING compared to the amount of time and frustration you've dealt with, because of this issue. I can't promise, neither would he, that he'll 'solve it'....but with this guy? IT'S VERY LIKELY, ...he's done HUNDREDS of these, on the diagnostic end, and built several, as well. So, it's just a suggestion, and I'd be glad to pick you up and go get lunch or something if he needs a couple hours to get to it. Usually, if you call ahead, he'll give you a time to come, and in my case, and 2 others that I've sent there(both of which were REALLY odd problematic running situations), he'll jump right on it as he knows it can only be so many things....and in all 3 cases over the last 3 months, with these CRAZY odd problems...... He solved it. Can't say it would be free, either.... but how much time and money have you thrown at this thing, already? And remember, ...selling this and going with another, ...well, like with my rig now...that can OFTEN lead to just a brand new set of headaches.

Just a thought.... PM me if interested, K?

Mark

 

Lol Chef - you're funny. I can almost feel your emotion through your post

Ok. I can try and list the entire process that I have gone through trying to hunt down this gremlin.

I should have mentioned clearly: I replaced my cam, rockers, and head gasket at the same time. It was obvious that they were TOAST. It appears that the #3 and #4 exhaust rockers were not getting lubricated correctly, and overheated, scoring the cam lobes and rocker pads. Causing a horrible miss. Replacing these parts, like I said fixed the problem for about 2-3 days.

Saying this makes me think of something very important. I never did check to see if there was something obstructing the flow of oil to the rocker arm shafts. In fact, I didn't even think about it with everything else going on. I did get new rocker arm shafts as well.

There is a possibility, that the lack of oil is happening AGAIN with the new parts, and already scored the cam and rockers. But, just inspecting all the parts and doing another valve adjustment this past week, everything looked good.

My oil gauge (I know not very professional) only reads half way at 4k RPM. It sits low at lower RPM, and goes up and down depending on RPM, but never goes above half way. Which I don't know if that is good/normal or not.

The truck may be running hot, but I cannot tell. I have no way of telling. I'd have to install a thermocouple inline of the fluid flow somehow. All cooling parts are new. I have a point and shoot thermometer that tells me I am running at about 190F of the coolant at the thermostat housing. From what I've read, 22re temp gauges sit right at about halfway.

As far as bringing it to a mechanic, I've brought to two Toyota guys and they both said they have no clue on whats happening with it. They just say drive it the way it is, but thats super annoying. Maybe I do need to find yet another Toyota guy. Torrance is a little far for me, but I'll consider it...

Sam33: Here is my smog test results:
For 15mph/1600 RPM:
HC: Measured: 4 Avg: 34
CO%: Measured: 0 Avg: .06
NOx: Measured: 0 Avg 74

This was from a previous post of mine, and i didn't list units. I need to dig around for the original print out.

 

Here's my list:

Major components replaced:
Camshaft, rocker arms, rocker arm shafts, head gasket, intake manifold gasket, upper plenum gasket, exhaust gasket, Denso TPS, Denso O2 sensor, Fuel Filter, Denso Cap, rotor, plugs, wires, re-manned injectors, water pump, radiator, thermostat, radiator cap.

Checked/Cleaned:
AFM, Coil/Igniter, Fuel pressure,fuel pressure regulator, compression, timing, valve clearance, all voltage readings at ECU (I need to re-do this), ECT, TVV, cleaned throttle body, cleaned intake plenum, cleaned EGR valve (working correctly), blocked EGR off to test if EGR was culprit. Checked all grounds, several times. I may try and do the "Big 3".

Truck definetly runs better with TPS disconnected. I've probably checked the TPS adjustment 10 times. The idle WILL drop down to 500 intermittently when driving. I have it set at about 800. I dont know if thats IACV or TPS related, but I would bet its IACV since it looks like crap, and the TPS is brand new.

I feel that the truck isn't getting sufficient mixture. The plugs are a little white, and my mechanic feels its a lean misfire I am experiencing. But, my fuel pressure is in perfect spec, and the fuel pressure regulator is working the way it should be, (I used an Altrom fuel pressure tester from AutoZone). The fact that it runs good when cold makes me think that the closed loop is giving it extra fuel. Same when I disconnect the TPS, but that is obviously just overcompensating for the real problem at hand.

Can anyone explain how the oil gets up into the rocker arms? I'm scared that the oil pump is not getting enough lubrication up there.

 

Mine is brand new, everything, .... 170#, pretty much across the board on compression, good oil flow(new block, oil pump, pick up seal and pick up is clean, rockers and assembly all good)... and my pressure is right about the half way mark, max. I think any more than that is actually dangerous and indicative of 'something's not right!' syndrome! lol.

Sorry for the double post...not sure why it did that, and 3 posts apart? :confused:

Far as the Torrance thing... just let me know, I'll gladly meet you there and maybe could even help you for an hour before it opens, trying to put our heads together. Like I said, if you got there before it opened, shouldn't take more than 90min, right? You're probably spending that time at least once a week, trying to chase this down, eh? lol. Like I said, just a thought...but I had tried the dealer foreman for DCH toyota in Torrance(one of the best young guys in CA from what I've heard).... tried Toyo Automotive(guys built 2 of my motors, and all they've done for 30 years is Toyota/Lexus.....and then this guy, in 20 Minutes, Baja.... Seriously, he lost me in about 30 seconds with half of his testing and POE info, lol.... but HE GOT IT, quick!

190* isn't bad....yeah. But I've never had a toy run past 1/3rd on the gauge that was 'doing really well', so to speak. half way? Never heard that, but I'm still learning and still quite the newb in many aspects! lol.

yeah, if you do the POE, I'm sure you might get a new flush of people chiming in, eh? Maybe, can't hurt...and again, it's just TIME to do it, right? lol.

Best wishes,

mark

 

Here's some pictures of the burnt looking rockers too...(Before I changed them). The new ones are pictured that have been in my truck for about 1500 miles.

 

Posted by a GREAT GUY, Thook!;

"The oil is taken up into the block and delivered through the block's main saddles, in through the top bearings and crank journals where it then also reaches to the rod bearings and their saddles. All the while it's also being pump through the front end of the block, into the timing assembly and on up to the top end through the cam, bearings, and bathing the valve train assembly. All of this is by means of the little holes/ports you'll find machined into the moving parts. It makes more sense if you were to actually see it all.

Anyway, a block in the oil galleries would increase oil pressure....not lower it. And, it's not the pump that creates the pressure, it's the resistance to flow within the motor. There's the relief valve on the oil pump that's designed to open in the case of excessive pressure. If it sticks open, the motor will have trouble building pressure.

There are a number of reasons you could be experiencing low pressure....the relief valve only being one. First, verify the sending is working properly and has good connections. Also, read this link here:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/us020516.htm"

 

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index...c=53410.0;wap2