B-Fake

Hey guys, I am terrible with electrical problems so hopefully someone here can steer me in the right direction. Here's the problem; coming back from The Gorge today I stopped for breakfast then to fill the tank afterwards. After getting gas I turn the key and *click*...nothing. I've had this happen a few times before and have jiggled the wire going to the starter and it fired right up after that...not this time. After screwing around checking this and that I noticed the voltage gauge was at zero with the key in the on position. I got a jumpstart and got it home and now I'm trying to figure out where the problem is.

I tried starting it again and when I turn the key to "start" it clicks and the voltage gauge immediately drops to zero. I had my dad try to jump it and it would barely crank and his voltage gauge was dropping down way low. I'm guessing it's a short somewhere like a relay or the starter itself, but my knowledge in electrical is pretty limited so hopefully someone here can make this less of a headache for me .

Hopefully that describes the issue well enough. If anyone knows exactly what this is or has any suggestions so I have a better idea what to do when I get home from work tomorrow it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Kiroshu

Check battery terminals/cables....?
-Corrosion
-Damage
-Proper fastening

Poor battery ground....?

Fuses...?

B-Fake

Terminals/Cables are good, not the best, but I've seen much worse work fine. I do plan on replacing the cables while I'm working on this.
Connections are tight
Went through all of the grounds just a few months back
Fuses are all good

RAD4Runner

Exactly what clicks? The best tools for troubleshooting a classic Runner are our senses, and a volt-meter (Harbor Freight is your friend).

Don't start throwing parts and money at the problem without knowing whether it will really solve your problem.

When you checked connectors, how thorough were you?

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199.../#post51939319

How long have your had your battery? Did you have it tested? Batteries normally start going bad between 3rd and 4th year.
When you turn ignition on (Not start position), if you battery voltage is around 12V, it should still be good. Less than 11V, you need it replaced.

Once you're verified battery and connections are good, and you still have "clicks" only problem, see my sig.

Scrussanation

Hit it right on the nail.X2, also have you had any stereo equipment installed or any auxiliary items installed in past? Could be short from sub amp or remote wire. Get multimeter and see where voltage is when you turn everything off..if you have a constant drain of voltage then you have a short somewhere in system. Disconnect battery if voltage continues to drop in battery after separated from cars electrical then you have internal short in battery and will need to be replaced.

wrenchmonster

I bet the plate inside the starter is stuck/not making good contact. Drop the starter out and do the old jumper cable test and see if that puppy spins. Ground the body of the starter and connect the positive lead to where cable mounts up. If the starter spins and does so freely then the starter is okay. If it turns out the starter is bad then I believe you can replace just the contacts in the solenoid (dealer used to sell these) and you'll be good to go.

If not the next thing I would check would be the cable itself for high resistance. I've seen cables that looked good visually, but had super high resistance. Cut it open and it's all green inside from corrosion.

RAD4Runner

WAIT! Unless you have time to kill, do not drop the starter, yet. First find out exactly what clicks.

• If battery and connections are good, AND starter relay clicks, but starter solenoid does not thunk, see click-only fix on my sig.
  
• If battery and connections are good, AND starter relay clicks AND starter solenoid thunks, but no spin >> Yes, wrenchmonster theory is most likely correct; solenoid contacts may be bad. See 4 crawler's write-up on replacement, or search this forum.
  To Verify: test functionality of starter solenoid solenoid using This test. It's easy, test wire is cheap to make, and in a pinch can be used to start your truck even if ST1 contact of ignition switch, or even your starter relay is defective.

Good point. Remember, a simple resistance check may not reveal a bad cable. For example, a battery cable/terminal with lots of corrosion or severed strands will still show low resistance. However, once you run current through it, it will either cause too much voltage drop, and not send full power to starter motor.

wrenchmonster

RAD4Runner, you're last post is great and the OP should follow your advice, which is much more complete than my own.

What caught my eye was when the OP made the above statement. You can't just look at something and know it's good, especially when it comes to electrical. You have to do the testing. But you're correct in that there is more testing that can and should be done before yanking the starter. Don't just throw parts at the problem and hope you get lucky OP. Learn to do the testing.

B-Fake

Thanks a lot for the replies! RAD it sounds like you know the starter system better than you thought you may have wanted to, lol. Don't worry, I don't like to just throw parts at something and hope for the best, that's why I'm here

I should have specified the click. When the gauge shows voltage, I turn the key to start and the starter clicks then voltage drops to zero. After that, when the key is turned to start, what I assume is the relay clicks.

I only gave the cables a visual inspection so I'll throw the multimeter at them now that I have time. I only really checked the connections at the battery and the starter to make sure they were tight. What's happening seems to me like a short in the starter, but I'll do the easier tests first so I don't waste my time pulling the starter if it didn't need to be done to begin with. I also don't like wasting time doing things that don't need to be done, lol.

There is an aftermarket CD player in there. When I got the truck the stereo wiring was a mess and I went through all of it and did everything right, but it did cut out a few times on the way home for just a split second and turn right back on. I turned it off after that just in case. It's an old deck and I think it's just tired, but maybe it's related somehow?

I'll report what I find in a little while. Thanks again.

RAD4Runner

lol!

Gotta hear and feel what clicks (Told you ... senses are best for troubleshooting a 22RE - LOL!)

The starter does not really "click". What "thunks" (a heavier, deeper sound) is the starter solenoid that piggybacks on the starter motor.

Use special tool I mentioned to observe this behavior. If solenoid is good, it will thunk, meaning actuator moves, trying to close the solenoid contacts that wrenchmonster mentioned.

If battery is weak or solenoid contacts are going bad (make connection but have high resistance because they're worn/corroded), the solenoid will thunk and starter motor will groan as it tries to turn but not get enough power.

If contacts are really bad (not making any connection at all), solenoid would thunk, but contacts would not close enough so starter motor may not even show any activity.

To a weak battery the starter, that takes hundreds of amperes to crank, would appear as a short.

Where do you measure voltage? Try right at battery terminal.

A normal starter solenoid (takes 12 amperes), and a normal starter motor with its thick winding wires, would also cause a weak battery to drop near zero volt.

I doubt that your stereo is the problem, although If wired improperly stereo may drain your battery. Also a short from stereo should show as soon as you put ignition switch in accessories. I suggest you disconnect power to your stereo and amp if any to simplify troubleshooting and so you can focus on essential things (like getting the truck to run any time you want it).

Whatever the outcome, the 86-88 starter circuit is flawed so any fix other that fixing that flaw will only hide the flaw. Fixing the flaw is the correct and robust way and will extend the life of your ignition switch ST1 contacts.

B-Fake

Turned out to be a simple fix after all. While probing around the battery terminals I found the voltage at the clamps would differ randomly from the terminals. I had new terminal clamps that I bought months ago so I put them on and it fired right up. Turned it off and on again several times just to make sure and not a hiccup. I guess when I buy parts for my truck I should just put the damn things on instead of leaving them in my center console

Kiroshu

Always start with simple ^_^

B-Fake

And inexpensive

wrenchmonster

Ah cool, good deal B-Fake. Congrats on figuring it out, and I'm glad it was simple. I hope you got the good terminals (solder on type), rather than the one with the clamp and the two bolts to squeeze the cable. I've personally never had good luck with the clamp style, inevitably they end up corroding, regardless of dielectric grease or terminal coatings. Since I made the switch to only the solder type I've never had an issue. They are harder to find though... I usually have to visit my local auto electric place to get them, seems the FLAPS don't carry them for some reason.

B-Fake

I've only ever seen the clamp type, I didn't even know there were solder on type, though I never thought to look, lol. Oh well I'm sure they'll be good for a long enough time.

wrenchmonster

Just like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quick-Cable-2-0-ga-Straight-Battery-Terminals-Positive-Negative-/251331941940?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a848d1634&vxp=mtr
Except yeah, safe yourself a few bucks and go local. I've never lived anywhere that I couldn't find a stereo installer or auto-electric (starter and alternator guy) who didn't have them.