Weasy2k

(moved from vendor forum)
Well with S2S Tunings 93 4Runner V6 blowing a head gasket (go figure!) I was unable to get a baseline dyno of the truck done, however there have been some done by other people (i forgot the names as i type this, but thank you) so at least I got something to work with.

With the tear down of the 3vz-e's heads I will be sending the stock cams to my grinder to get a first run cam prototype made which he has already designed in the past.
This very mild grind which ill call "Should Be Stock" will then be taken to the dyno to see how the STOCK ecu takes the cam and power output because of it.

I will then analyze the results and post them here for discussion as i could offer more agressive ones if the demand exists.

The other option that is open for this engine is that I can get brand new billit cams made so you dont need to send the cores in for regrind as this engine needs only 2 cams so the price will be a lot lower then for those with the 5vz-fe. (of course i will offer regrinds as an option for people who rather do that to save money)

Post any questions or opinions here. You can also email or PM me if you want. I will answer them ASAP.


EDIT SEPT 2006!
THe only odd thing about this is that in the first test the HP and torque do not overlap.....i just really noticed this and am looking into the reason why, i have to request the core data from teh dyno.

phorensic

I take it you are just increasing duration with a re-grind. With the billet cores will you offer higher lift? Is higher lift even an option on the 3vze? What durations are we talking about here and approximately how many thousand RPM will it move the torque curve up? Approx. how much horsepower gain? You mentioned cooler EGTs with the cam, is this a function of overlap, duration, something else?

I know most of those questions will be answered by the dyno, I'm just wondering what you are expecting....before this project dies like a lot of other 3vze projects, lol.

Toysrme

Nope, Duration & lift on the regrinds. Completely new custom profile.
Cooler EGT's most likely from longer overlap, and more lift. Should make anyone wanting to go turbo, or afraid of burning up the exhaust valves feel better about themselves.

Hey weasy any mods on your dad's truck?

F0RSAKEN

How does a regrind work? Ive never had it explained to me how someone can regrind a cam to be larger...unless you weld new material onto it first? Sorry for the ignorance.

Toysrme

It can be a few combinations.
You can grind it down to the new profile you want, then use a shim to make up the missing material.
If you can't get the profile you want from grinding it down & shimming it back up, you can weld new material on in combination with grinding them down.

Weasy2k

Hey, Yea regrinds can be both weld on and grind down, changing lift and duration.

The first set of cams will be a basic upgrade that will WIDEN the power band. This cam grinder is very confident that the cam will help bring lower power and higher power up. The reason for this is because of the stock cam being so poorly designed.

The duration is what will cause the lower EGT's because of the longer time the valve is open and the speed it opens thus improving the heat distribution a bit.
Horsepower estimates cant really be said right now, but i will show it all on the dyno.

No mods on this truck, except for the SMT6 that will be going on it for testing as well, but wont affect dyno runs. I plan on playing with fueling and timing as well as seening what 94 octane tuning will get me and how much power i can gain from that.

When i go with a idea i generaly follow through This IS being done as soon as the shop clears up a bit and i can roll the 4runner in.

Toysrme

Good, becuase what I was going to say, is take a few min to set the AFM 4 clicks richer, and possibly advance the timing 5*btdc.

That will probably be the highest power someone could make on just cams without buying tuning agents.
It would be very intresting to compair base timing + AFM richening VS custom smt6/fueling. Or atleast AFM VS SMT6 analog in fuel tuning. I would expect you to pick up a good number of horsepower by simply richening the cogwheel.


While you shouldn't do it on that vehicle... If anyone else ever get's curious, they can take the AFM cog farther & use the idle bypass screw on the AFM to bring the idle back in-line.

Weasy2k

How would increasing the AFR increase power? One thing i have found on these engines (well at least teh 5vz) is that it likes to run a bit leaner, my s/c setup is at 12.1:1.

Im going to leave the afm as is...IF anything, im going to remove the AFM and put a MAF in its place instead.

Toysrme

I just bet even mild cms will out-run the ECU's open-loop ability on the stock AFM setting Like I tried to prove with math, intake/exhaust mods on the stock AFM. No problem, but it'll benifit from some loosening so the flap opens farther, easier I think.

Then again you just as easily could have nailed it. If the ECU can deal with the faster change, and we all know the majority of toyota's run too rich from the factory - it could wind up perfect!

Weasy2k

Ill check with the SMT6 Thats how i found out the 3.4L stock MAF runs out with the S/C

F0RSAKEN

What would be the next logical step in modification after cams, MAF conversion?

Also, what about custom fab'ing an intake manifold? Longer runners = more low end torque, shorter runners = better top end horse power (obviously, we'd for the most part be needing the first option).

Weasy2k

Sean on this board is making some manifolds....lets see how that goes.

The MAF conversion will be tested with the smt6.....but yea if that works out well i will be putting together something for everyone

suprathepeg

Hey Johnny, I got the heads and the bottom end is the shop right now getting preped. I'll do a dyno run with the P&P heads and OS SS valves and then add your cams. I'm very interested to see what we get out of this combo. Then I'll add the new plenum.

Either we'll end up with a great product combo or we'll have a very expesive learning experiance that we'll tell people was worth while cause it was fun, lol.

Bumpin' Yota

bookmarked!

Weasy2k

Right on! The 3vz-e here is going into the shop after this weekend for tear down and prey its not hurt.

Weasy2k

The tear down has started here and will be getting at the cams shortly.

What would everyone prefer the power band be at?
Right now my plan is to beefen the power band so there is not such a quick fall off in the top end yet start the power a bit earlier in the low end (yes this is possible due to the 12v design )

Toysrme

3vz-e:


5vz-fe:



92-93 3vz-fe:


94-96 1mz-fe:





While it would be hard to stop fall-off to the level the dohc heads do without some work... That would be a good guide to look at when choosing.
Forgetting about everything but the stock rpm cut-off. I would advise trying to figure out at what point you want the engine to peak out. Right off the bat. I would shift the entire powerband up a thousand rpm without a second thought b/c the cams probably suck to begin with & aint gonna loose anything by doing that.
Without any regard to cams, The closer to the fuel cut you get, the less you are susseptable the unported 2 valve trail-off-of-death.



I don't drive a truck every day... But that's how I see it!

Weasy2k

That is what im thinking as well,
the cam grinder mentioned that the base profile he has as the first option will increase low end power while shifting the power band more to the right as well to help with that high end. I am going to go that route and see what comes of it.

suprathepeg

I agree and disagree with what your saying.

The peak for a truck especially in a runner should be right where it is stock. Keep in mind that these cams won't make any 3.0 "race worthy" so 90% of the people who are gonna want them are gonna want them for towing or just to get a little more city "get up and go".

Moving the whole powerband up another 1000rp is silly in a 4x4. ANy off road guys are gonna want to have power in the lower RPM which is why cams and head work on a 22re are so popular. Remimber these cams will never be in a car and trying to create a 3vzfe is a complete waste of time.

Every person that I've talked to who has done work to their 3.0 Exhaust, Heads (especially with OS valves), intake, ignition etc all accomplished moving the powerband up the RPM scale and gaining about 30-40HP and eliminating drop off before red line. Pretty much what Toysrme is saying. The stock cams have no problem making the power you want when given the opertunity to breathe.

I say have the power come on earlier and harder with a flatter powerband that pulls all the way to 5500,offer a mod that is different then all the others that are currently available.

Something closer to the 6mge would be really nice, it couild be that the problem comes down to stroke but I'd get real horny for cams that would help you get a better powerband not just move it up.

Do some research and you'll see that the stock cams can do exactly what your saying if you can open up the top end to more air a little. If a 3vzfe powerband was what people wanted then people like me would have just bit the bullet and done the swap. No offence but Toysrme whenever you talk about the 3vze you seem to be thinking it is a FE in a car application, seriously I don't mean any offence I just don't think a FE style powerband or all the FE style solutions are what we need in trucks. I'll bet the 2nd gen runner weighs at least 2000lbs more then your camry and will never race another ricer at the lights.

Something like this would be nice:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/philag/Dyno.jpg

My .02

phorensic

The only thing I see important here is moving the powerband up 1,000RPM. We have 3L of displacement, and 2V/cyl heads. We have low end torque, we don't need the cam helping that. Your argument regarding 4x4 and low end torque is good, but you don't put a bitchin cam in to crawl on rocks, you put it in to pull hard on the street, and in my case on a desert race course. Designing a rock crawler cam is a complete waste of time, when the stock cam is fine for that kind of stuff.

"Something closer to the 6mge would be really nice,"
Well, again, for me personally, I wouldn't want an i-6 torque curve. In my experience with N/A v6's and i6's, the v6 will always have a torque curve more suited to desert racing/street stuff. Sure, you get a nice long pull, but for desert racing you need a HIT of power right off the bat, and in a nice lump at a relatively low RPM, anything else doesn't work all that well. It's hard to explain, but if you have raced or pre-ran off-road, you will know what I mean. Now a turbo i6 is a whole diff story.

Give me 1K higher powerband and more lift baby!