suprathepeg

I guess what I mean is that getting to that power needs to be smooth and confident. If from 1500-2500 sucks a$$ then who wants that. Again I think the point needs to be made that for the overwhelming percentage of people who are interested in more gumption from their 3.0 they don't want to go fast (ie like a car or a desert racer) they want to haul off the line better, they want to tow their boat and then go play off road on the weekend. Look at all the peeps on this board I'd bet that 75%+ use their truck for their DD in some form or another and wheel on the side with it if at all. Any smart marketer will tell you that you should always cater to the largest portion of your market, I'd say that is first guys with runners that want more go off the line and reduced downshifting on the hwy or hill; then truck owners who want the same thing plus towing and they all want the ability to hit the trails.

One complaint that I have heard from almost every 3.0 owner who has built for power was that the powerband moved up, peaked too hard and wasn't any fun on the road or trail as a result.

Post this on Pirate or 4x4wire and you'll get exactly what I'm saying. The stock cams can deliver exactly what you are asking for when the truck gets more air and better ignition. These aren't the first 3.0 performance parts to ever be made but those that were made didn't sell well cause they neglected the majority of the market and what it wanted. Give people a smoother easier powercurve and a 10-20 ponies and you'll get a lot better reviews then a peaky late power curve that gets you 30hp. I gaurentee it. A powercurve simular to a M series is exactly what people are looking for. HP don't mean ˟˟˟˟˟ if you don't like how you have to get it.

Silver_Truck

I would like to see more power/torque down low low like 1.5k, 2k etc. my truck almost never sees more then 4k why? because its practically pointless theres not much more power up there all it does is burn more gas its not going to get me anywhere faster. I want to see more power in the regualr DD power range where you fall out of the torque due to the transmissions ratios, i/e the 1-2 shift coming up a hill out of a 90 degree corner, the 3-4 shift too where the revs drop down to around 2k. Here's a picture of my modified dyno chart from above that shows what i'd like to see:

The green boxes are the important areas to me, the low end and also where the hp/torque curves cross over both near their peaks. To sum it up I want more power from idle to say 4k.

Toysrme

What you guys are missing, is that the cams are so bad, you can shift the powerband a 1000rpm, get big gains, and NOT loose anything that it makes now on the low end.
Weasy isn't making a race cam. he's making mild cams LoL!
You're looking for a large blower, or small turbocharger... Not cams!
To do that, you'd have to keep in the neighboorhood of stock lift, and kill off EVEN MORE cam, making the cams suck even worse than they do now, AND slowing the truck horribly.

You'll also be using more gas.

Weasy2k

ill just bypass any comments about it and say this

You can port the hell out of your intake manifolds.....get ITBS....whatever the case...if you dont let the valve stay open long enough....how is the engine going to pull more air in per stroke?

And Sean you gotta think of what is going on really...i in no way say these are going to take anything away from the low end...these are not 282 or 296deg cams
262 cams is the highest you can go before taking more away from the low end.

These cams are int he 254 range which will make power avalble from 1500 to 5700rpm (course its above redline) ......

Oh yea and when your rock crawling dont you slip your clutch a lot? Because when your going 3-4mph i doubt your in gear with clutch out and going up a steep grade at 800rpm...you WILL see yourself in the 2000-3000+rpm range a lot as well.

Then on the highway while passing...do you punch it in 5th gear at 1500rpm? If you dont have a 5vz with a s/c i would highly doubt you would be doing that

Also there wsa mentioned you wanted more power down low without moving the peak power up yet the dyno that was posted showed peak hp at 5200rpm and tq at 4600rpm...thats higher then stock????

Anyway over all the first batch of cams for "stockish" use will have af atter power band and im SURE everyone will like it Esspecialy with the mods your doing to your engine

phorensic, if you want something a bit different then what my dads truck dynos at with the advertised cams i can make you something more agressive for the setup that you will be making.

Silver_Truck

I'm just saying where I'd like more power after driving my truck and knowing where it falls on its face

As far as crawling thats what low gears are for, generally I am in frist gear with the clutch out at around 1500-2k at 3 or so mph and 3k at around5-6 mph. And on the highway I cruise at 3k at 70 in 5th gear so I'm righ tin the power when I need to pass thats just the way these trucks are geared even stock you turn right around 3k at 70.

The dyno that I posted is purely theoretical I have no idea if those gains are possible I seem to remember something about 10-20 hp so thats kinda what I played around with also the peaks are pretty much above the stock ones at around 3600 and 4400. I'm still waiting pateintly with quite a bit of anticipation

Weasy2k

Using gears your also not punching it or else you would be flying...unless your 3/4 to full throttle cams wont erally do anything

Thats where superchargers come in....then again dyno will show what these will do...

Thanks for the input peoples!

suprathepeg

We use a low range transfer case and proper gearing to handle that. However, it really sucks having to wind the engine out to get the power you need if you're doing any technical driving.

At hwy speeds with proper gearing you should be between 2500-3000 in one of these trucks and thats where I want to feel the power comin on.


Sorry I should have beed clear that is how I would like the band to look in relation to our engines. IF the power started to come on at or just below 2k with a nice steady, instead of a concave shape more straight and even or even convex. Pull all the way to 4500 and flatten off from there (flatening off may be something that other mods like ignition, increased intake and exhaust flow and better timing may help more then the cams. Hell just get the powerband to look something like the dyno chart I posted a little lower on the RPM or even wher it is if you have to; just smooth it out and I'd be happy, even if the cams only add 5-10hp and fix how it comes on I'll be extatic.

Its the shape of the powerband that needs to be fixed more then anything and I can't see any other mods besides cams fixing it. If these cams have the engine making power past 5500 then its all wasted. There are a ˟˟˟˟˟load of other things you can do to help the topend.

Make it Fatter for sure

Yes you want something very much like a high revving car engine, the 3vzfe or a 7mgte would be much better suited to your uses. Problem is the 3vze's internals aren't up to it, its designed to be a stout truck engine for hauling and such.

Weasy2k

Dont forget these wont cross the redline boundry...the power badn focus of these units will be 2-5k rpm...

254's...

Also my argument stands...you do not want to be passing people or merging ont he highway at 2500-3500rpm I have virtually double the HP of the 3vz-e and when i punch it....you wont see below 4k

Today was the first day my truck all of a sudden hit above 9psi...and i am breaking loose at 5000rpm in 2nd (approx 70mph) looks like this new belt is fianlly broken in.

Anyway...should be a day or 2 before the cams are out and on tuesday will be at the grinders shop...PREYING for thursday to be done and ready to go.

Toysrme

If you want low end power, Make your intake ports much smaller.
If you hog them down 30-40% of the intake exhaust valve diameter, you'll most likely gain 25lb-ft @ 4000rpm @ 5-10lbft every 500rpm you go backwards.

The engine will choke even worse from there as rpms climb.

JamesD

No make your exhaust smaller and make your intake runners longer.

James

Toysrme

The difference being... I wasn't bullÅÅÅÅting.
The massive velocity increases at low rpm are staggering, equally as staggering as the roughly same losses on the top end.

Bumpin' Yota

I have plenty of low end grunt right now with the mods i've done, she just falls on her face above 4800 rpm and also when she steps into 2nd gear....

Id like the powerband to come on at about 2500 and last till 6000 and remain as flat as a plateau - you know, like an LS1! Also how much of a gain are we looking at btwn 3500 and 4000?

Weasy2k

THe dyno will tell in the next couple of weeks

The only thing that sucks about the 3vz-e cams is that there are none out there...no cores i can buy so for now until i can see the demand grow for these cams i will be selling regrinds of your own core units until I can get blanks in to make billit cams for these engines (as only 2 billits are not as pricey as 4)
Also if you see my dyno and want different results you can always talk to me about what your goals are and i can get a different grind made just for you. Thats no problem.

Bumpin' Yota

one week postposting - any news?

Weasy2k

Parts delay ...waiting for some sort of stupid VSV that broke on the back of the intake, inlcuding headbolts, headgasket & cams
All the parts should arrive Thursday and ill get at it

My question to you guys is would you rather take:

A) Billet Cams,
New cams freashly ground to new specs and requires less clearence adjsuting as the size of the cam is the same as stock.
Cost would be in the range of 600-700usd

B) Regrinds,
Taking Cores off yuor engine sending them up and getting them REGRINDED to the new specs.
This method requires some new shims (the cams include spacers so its not as hard as not having these spacers) to be put in place which in the end takes up more time to install.
Cost around 300-400

Bumpin' Yota

What if I sent you the cams i bought separately and not from my engine? I have no idea how to approach the journal sizes and their differences (if there are differing journal sizes)... Does toyota make different thicknesses of bearings for the journals on the cams? If so I think I'd go that route - a full reshiming of the valve train doesnt scare me! lol

phorensic

I think regrinds would be the better option seeing as most people are going to need to reshim/adjust their valvetrain either way.

I might be wrong on this, because I've never adjusted my valvetrain before. Usually the #6 valve needs to be adjusted because of the design flaw in the exhaust manifolds. So wouldn't that require both billet AND regrind cam installs to need full adjustment after install?

Weasy2k

With Billets the center line is not changed so the 80% of the cams will retain stock qualitys and may not need ot be shimmed at all.

MOST of the time regrinds all 12 valve lifters need to be shimmed regardless, but with my cams i will provide a small disc that goes under the stock shim and will raise the stock shim up the amount that was taken off the cam so you will get the same effect as having a billet cam

The only issue with regrinding is finding cores to have stocked here to offer as low of a turnaround time as possible. I am always searching for cams to stock.

I will be putting out a group buy on these and the 5vz units in a short while to help start things going.

Bumpin' Yota

and about hte journal sizes question I had?

Weasy2k

no problems as there the same...