I am currently faced with a blown head gasket on a 94 Toyota pickup and am trying to make a decision to salvage the vehicle. I need judgement on whether the estimate I have been given is within reason. For the work of resurfacing the head, rebuilding valve-train, and replacing timing chain and guides I am faced with at almost $3700, and this is considering labor in Northern CA. I recently replaced the lower intake manifold and before I knew the head gasket was blown, I figured there was a problem sealing the coolant passage from the adjacent intake. As a result when driving the truck back and forth to / from the shop, I ran into some hydrostatic lock though only once when starting the engine along with some surprising fire cracker sounds from the tail pipe. In discussing the situation, the question of integrity of the short block (crankshaft, rods, piston) was raised due to the problematic stresses imposed by hydrostatic lock. It was suggested that if I want to be 100% confident in the repair, rebuilding the block is also an option.

Obviously I would rather salvage the block as is and simply reattach a resurfaced and rebuilt head on top. However, since the plan is to take the engine out entirely for this repair, it caused me to consider the possibility of an engine swap. The tech who started and listened to the engine after I drove it there reported the block sounded intact and they feel sufficiently comfortable doing the head rebuild. However, the boss did make it clear there could be a point of failure yet undetected such as a hairline crack in one of the rods. As I understand it can be difficult finding a rebuilt OEM engine with quality components.

 

$3700 for a 22RE top end rebuild??? WoW

Seems that keeping these old trucks running is not an economical proposition anymore unless you can do most of the work yourself.

Last time I built a 22RE, all the machine work cost less than 800 dollars, including boring oversize, block decking, crank grinding, fly milling head, and valve grind.

I built a stock engine with high quality parts for less than 1500 dollars; all machine work and parts included.

I think that $3700 for a valve job and assorted top end parts is outrageous.

 

$3700 for the head seems high, but not surprising.

when i had the 22re in my 2nd '87 rebuilt in 2019, the cost for machine shop work and parts was around $2800, which included a new head, timing set, block work, o/s pistons, etc. it was worth it in my estimation, still a minor cost relative to a new vehicle (i mean, you aren't buying a new vehicle for $4000). since the rebuild, i've put 41k+ miles on it; 282k total on the motor (trouble-free, too). better mpg than i get with the unrebuilt 22re in '87 4runner #1 (23 vs 19, more or less), which only has 228k miles on it.

 

If it was me, I'd have to ask myself...Why do I have a pickup? Will I buy another pickup if I junk this one or sell it "as is"?

 

It the engine hasn't been disassembled(i.e. teardown), or at least the head removed, it's not possible to give an accurate estimate for repair free of surprises.
With the head off you could at least evaluate the piston walls for scoring, and confirm that all four pistons rise to the same height(i.e. connecting rod didn't get bent when the engine locked)
With that info you can start making decisions hopefully free of most huge surprises.
Once diassembly is complete, the shop should build two lists. The first list should have all the parts listed needed to fix the issue, including labor and any sublet, like machining. The second list would have all the parts, along with any additional labor, that they would recommend to do at the same time. In a repair like yours that second list would often include belts, hoses, waterpump, timing chain, fuel filter, clutch kit, etc. etc. In both cases individuals parts need to be listed and priced, you can't lump it all together.

The California Bureau of Automotive Repair use to have a very short booklet that oulined procedure nicely. It was meant for those writing estimates, but I highly recommend consumers read, also.In my personal experience over the decades, I've found most Independent shops are incredibly poor at following procedure. Dealerships tend to follow the BAR rules much better. I think it's mostly because consumers tend to give the guy working on his own a pass when things go wrong.
The BAR booklet mentions "Automotive Repair Dealers" but that's a term BAR uses for any repair shop licensed in Calif. to do automotive repair, not just new car dealerships. here's a link:
BAR-Write it Right
Your best approach would be to find a reman long block you'd accept and determine the cost installed. Now you have your worst case scenario. With that you can start diassembling your engine and hope for something less costly. If it works out, great. If not, well you were prepared.

209Yota1.com does a decent job of listing the parts used in their rebuilds, including the brand. I'm not saying to buy from them, but I wish more online sellers did that.

 

As I call around about work replacing the head gasket and request it include a new valvetrain and timing chain / guides, the quotes are all hovering proud of $3.5k. The primary mechanic where my truck is mentioned that it is preferable to resurface and rebuild oem heads because from what he has seen, replacement aftermarket cast parts simply do not hold up as well over time. It seems like a head replacement would not be a huge difference in the total, and I usually am partial to retaining parts that are tried and true. The main issue here is not whether the cost is prohibitive because as mentioned, it would be difficult to replace the truck with another lesser-known vehicle for less.

The main question in directing the work once the head is off is whether it is worth rebuilding the block and therefore the engine entirely. The price difference between them rebuilding the engine or simply sourcing a reman long block was vague but was essentially told it is often difficult to discern the quality of rebuilt engines despite looking for a decent warranty. Reusing the block seems like a decent idea except my impression is that replacing the short block later would be prohibitively expensive compared to everything at this time? I take it a compression check is out of the question with a blown head gasket, yet the diagnostic tech reported smooth running and they seem to have sufficient confidence to go forward with the work. Would reusing the block usually be considered suboptimal in this case? Would a clutch near the end of it's life tip the scale?

I can appreciate considering the reason for needing a pickup and in fact started contemplating the possibility of going carless, as I have once before for eight years. That said, if I had use for any vehicle, it would be a pickup with its relatively decent mileage, ability to sleep in the bed, low profile and overall excellent utility. Out of left field is how I wouldn't mind getting out of the country a while and am most doubtful the work would pay for itself on the used market.

 

If all four cylinders have failed at the headgasket than a compression test or leakdown test is futile. But from my experience usually a few stay intact, and that allows some useful data. As an example, If #4 cylinder cylinder has 135 psi during the compression test, but 25% leakdown(bad) then the engine has enough issues to warrant the bottom end getting rebuilt. So gather whatever data you can before disassembly begins. It may prove helpful later down the line when you need to decide options. And you may pull the head only to find scoring on the piston cylinder walls, which makes test results somewhat moot.

I agree with your shop about the head. My oem head was warped beyond salvage, so I got a loaded(cam and valves installed) aftermarket one as a replacement, and I was not impresssed. A bit of a saga developed, especially around the cheap, Chinese camshaft. I ended up reusing my old oem valves and springs, lapping them in myself. I then got a oem camshaft from a wrecking yard. That solved my specific issues.
Would love to score an oem bare head at some point that hasn't been resurfaced much.

There are quality Japanese parts readily available for rebuilding short blocks, and the prices are very fair. NPR pistons and rings, Taiho for bearings, OSK timing chain sets, and Ishino Stone for complete gasket kits. The Achilles Heel in the timing chain set is often the tensioner. A low budget tensioner can fail remarkably early, forcing ALL the top end work to be redone. OSK uses a very good one. The Ishino Stone gasket set has parts that I'm pretty sure are sourced from the same supplier Toyota uses. Aisin also has respectable prices on many of the items you might end up replacing. timing cover, oil pump, waterpump, etc.

 

i have no experience with toyota swaps so take this opinion how you want. i have swapped my '83 squarebody 5.7 with a 5.3LS/4l60e. If your trying to save money.....find another running 22re and drop it in and get back on the road. Then as time money allows, rebuild your current engine. If you've really convinced yourself to swap it for whatever reason, just plan on spending 2-3 times more than rebuilding your engine. Be honest with yourself. seriously. swapping my truck was the reason i bought it. but im in it 10k and i could've got a chevy crate for 3800.

here's a rebuilt for you in NorCal
​​​​​​https://humboldt.craigslist.org/pts/...799429938.html

seems like a bargain compared to what you were quoted!

 

Thanks for these perspectives. I am still looking for an assessment on this simple idea of whether a majority of people would want to rebuild the block along with a new clutch plate? In other words, would the assured reliability and lack of risk balance the extra cost?

 

Not in my judgement.

 

Is the clutch kit relevant to the actual repair? No, it’s not.
so add that to you “nice to do at same time” list, along with cost and ignore for now.

 

How much to remove the cylinder block and transport it to an automotive machine shop? How much to hot tank the block and perform a comprehensive NDI ? How much to measure the block to assess the needed machine work? How much to resurface and bore and hone the block? Whatcha gonna do when the machine shop sez the block is cracked and one of the main bearings bore is oblong out-of-limits? We need more info...

 

7 posts up is current add for what appears a pretty good deal. Its also in Nor Cal and done by a shop. i am also in NorCal / (Modesto area) i'll give you some recently quoted machine shop costs.

$500 to hot tank the block and heads. they will not proceed with any services without charging you this cleaning fee. 250 to inspect tolerances and pressure test. $400 to hone. Bore is more. etc. Head repair is subject to what is needed. plan on 6-800+. the machine shop will try to sell you an engine builders kit for $1800 that they will then want another couple grand to install. This is based on a recent IN PERSON conversation i had with Modesto Engine Renue. I had the disassembled engine parts in the back of my truck when i arrived. I could not talk him into just paying him for checking tolerances without the cleaning fees. which i understand however.... i had already lightly honed the cylinders so they were spotless. I just put my tailgate back up and said, "See ya!"

i went to the machine shop as i didnt want to spend the money on quality bore dial gauge / micrometer that i would rarely use. (Do you have these tools? those are 6-1200 for decent ones.) The thing is everyone has high overhead with lease/insurance/labor cost/benefits/etc.

heck the Modesto toyota dealership labor cost is now $190 per hour.

if you dont have 4k+ and 1 months time, than i'd get that rebuilt longblock with new head while you can(and the add is still up) for $2200 or your going to need to rebuild your engine yourself. add up the total parts cost plus the minimum machine shop services. i bet its more than $2200.


here's another option($1895) but you gotta get it from portland so the cost would probably be more than the $2200

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/...802061227.html

 

I didn't think a true hot tank existed in Calif. anymore. I thought it was either an oven that baked it off, or a parts washer filled with Scrubbing Bubbles.
Brutal pricing though at the Modesto shop. Not the best reviews, either.

 

What year was that? I remember when gas was $1 a gallon too

 

If it wasn't using any oil I would take the chance and just do the top end. I'd buy a head and cam from a good supplier that specializes in Toyota like LCE. And even then you need to check the bores fit the cam, they can be awfully bad. I had to return the first head I got from them and the second one barely passed the specs. Too much clearance. And their springs should be tested also. Weak springs on my LCE head causes a vacuum flutter. Even with the valves adjusted loose. I'm need to replace the springs some day. But other than that its a good head. Surfacing a head doesn't fix the cam line. The bores still need to be line bored. So its usually cheaper to buy a new head. I'd get a guarantee before I ever bought another one. They don't even know where they're from. I doubt anyone knows. They can claim they're from anywhere, and who can prove them wrong. I long time engine machinist told me he never knows how long his parts will last, the companies change hands so fast, they get bought and sold, like used cars. You can check the sizes but who knows what the metal quality is.

 

I built that engine in 2018.
The internet permits one to pay as much, or as little, as one wants for parts.
There is patience, skill, and experience to be applied in the search for high quality parts at the lowest price.
I am confident that I could built that engine again for only two or three hundred $ more today.
with most of the increase being in machine shop charges.

 

I completely agree with MillBall. Finding quality parts at reasonable prices isn’t hard. Places like LCE make serious money by people not looking around.

 

Too bad EngineBuilder wasn't around anymore he would set you up. Problem here is the OP needs certain skills if owning an old horse. A note- due to electrolysis- a new head may be preferable to the old oe head.