Rear window relay fix- 1990 4Runner
04-18-2008, 02:25 PM
#21
I'm in the electronics business. Basically call me a design engineer. I own Regal Electronics and my primary products are LED lighting for virtually all applications. So I design lights, power supplies, assemblies etc. I also do low volume circuit board assembly. I do custom design for customers if the product interests me - I'm to small to do everything, so I pick the fun stuff!
I'm always looking for new stuff to work on and I'm one of these people that have the 3am eureka moments where I spend the rest of the night writing down an idea I just dreamed up.
Oh, yeah, I also moved from England to Michigan 7 years ago.
So now, everyone know who I am
ps. I drunk posted this. Sweet start to yotatech, I know. And down goes my reputation lol.
I'm always looking for new stuff to work on and I'm one of these people that have the 3am eureka moments where I spend the rest of the night writing down an idea I just dreamed up.
Oh, yeah, I also moved from England to Michigan 7 years ago.
So now, everyone know who I am
ps. I drunk posted this. Sweet start to yotatech, I know. And down goes my reputation lol.
04-19-2008, 11:16 AM
#25
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I did the same
I did the same fix with relays from a local electronics store. While there at the store, the guy helping me, asked what I was fixing, I told him the rear window relays on my 4Runner.
He gave a tip and I don't know if it's true or not, because I'm not the most electronically literate dude. But he said whenever possible, try to avoid rolling the window up or down with the key only, i.e. the rear tailgate or the ignition in the "on" position, he said I should start the truck first because it puts a heavier load on the relays with just the key "on" only...?
Don't know if true, but I do notice that the window goes up and down a lot faster with the engine on.
Those of you with the electronics background may be able to shed some light on this, my guess is it has something to do with the alternator running.
RRIND
He gave a tip and I don't know if it's true or not, because I'm not the most electronically literate dude. But he said whenever possible, try to avoid rolling the window up or down with the key only, i.e. the rear tailgate or the ignition in the "on" position, he said I should start the truck first because it puts a heavier load on the relays with just the key "on" only...?
Don't know if true, but I do notice that the window goes up and down a lot faster with the engine on.
Those of you with the electronics background may be able to shed some light on this, my guess is it has something to do with the alternator running.
RRIND
04-19-2008, 11:23 AM
#26
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Thread Starter
When the engine is running, more amperage is available than just what is available from the battery. There may be some benefit to using the in-cab switch though, I don't know.
04-19-2008, 02:26 PM
#28
That's not quiet true. When the engine is running the battery is charging and the alternator is providing system power. Actual voltage while running is anywhere from 13.5v to 14.8v typically. Battery voltage is anywhere from 12.4v to 13.0v typically.
So the window motor is drawing a current. Current is a function of resistance and voltage. The resistance of the motor dosent change but the voltage is changing, therefore current is changing. Current in this case can be directly related to mechanical effort, thus speed of the motor/window.
V is Volts, I is current in Amps and R is resistance in Ohms.
V=IxR
R=V/R
I=V/R
Then if you want to know the power something is consuming, which is the Watts, labelled P,
P=VxI
So heres an example. Lets say the constant motor resistance is 10 ohms.
Battery voltage @ 12.8v
Resistance = 10 ohms
So I=12.8/10
I=1.28
While the engine is running voltage is say 14.5v
I=14.5/10
I=1.45
Now thats in an ideal world but current draw changes due to load on the motor effecting the magnetic field around the coil, changing the emf and what not, but you get the picture.
The lower the volts, the less current. So actually, your sales guy got it totally backwards!
So the window motor is drawing a current. Current is a function of resistance and voltage. The resistance of the motor dosent change but the voltage is changing, therefore current is changing. Current in this case can be directly related to mechanical effort, thus speed of the motor/window.
V is Volts, I is current in Amps and R is resistance in Ohms.
V=IxR
R=V/R
I=V/R
Then if you want to know the power something is consuming, which is the Watts, labelled P,
P=VxI
So heres an example. Lets say the constant motor resistance is 10 ohms.
Battery voltage @ 12.8v
Resistance = 10 ohms
So I=12.8/10
I=1.28
While the engine is running voltage is say 14.5v
I=14.5/10
I=1.45
Now thats in an ideal world but current draw changes due to load on the motor effecting the magnetic field around the coil, changing the emf and what not, but you get the picture.
The lower the volts, the less current. So actually, your sales guy got it totally backwards!
I did the same fix with relays from a local electronics store. While there at the store, the guy helping me, asked what I was fixing, I told him the rear window relays on my 4Runner.
He gave a tip and I don't know if it's true or not, because I'm not the most electronically literate dude. But he said whenever possible, try to avoid rolling the window up or down with the key only, i.e. the rear tailgate or the ignition in the "on" position, he said I should start the truck first because it puts a heavier load on the relays with just the key "on" only...?
Don't know if true, but I do notice that the window goes up and down a lot faster with the engine on.
Those of you with the electronics background may be able to shed some light on this, my guess is it has something to do with the alternator running.
RRIND
He gave a tip and I don't know if it's true or not, because I'm not the most electronically literate dude. But he said whenever possible, try to avoid rolling the window up or down with the key only, i.e. the rear tailgate or the ignition in the "on" position, he said I should start the truck first because it puts a heavier load on the relays with just the key "on" only...?
Don't know if true, but I do notice that the window goes up and down a lot faster with the engine on.
Those of you with the electronics background may be able to shed some light on this, my guess is it has something to do with the alternator running.
RRIND
Last edited by UKrunner; 04-19-2008 at 02:33 PM.
04-20-2008, 07:45 PM
#31
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AHHHHHH pictures!!! Thank you from Nashville,TN
I have a 1994 Toyota 4runner sr5 4w v6. Recently, I replaced the tailgate with a used one since the original rusted through. I had a Backyard mechanic do this work and he was knowledgable and reasonable enough to even change out the key switch to match my keys. I have no problems with him so far. However after I took it home, the tailgate window stopped working , the same day; still no problems with him as I write this since I found the tailgate in a junkyard.
About 5 weeks later, I went to O'reillys and got a replacement window motor thinking I had an easy fix. After looking at your photos,I did all the same steps but one. If anyone decides to change out just the tailgate window motor, just reach around the right opening and there are (3) 8mm bolts which hold this motor that are reachable with a crescent wrench or socket wrench . Don't bother with disassembling the contraption, the window motor will ratchet right out. Resplice the wire of course, etc.
Despite this "refurb" window motor, No change. The window didn't budge.
After hearing a chirping warning sound and a few clicks from the back rear bumper I decided to open the side panel and found where these sounds came from. It was the main power window junction, hidden over the driver side rear tire just like your photos. This was a pain to get to and a tedious pull apart, especially when trying to remove the plastic side cargo box that houses the jack. Damn!
I have electronic board and soldering experience but ran into a dilemma about where, when, how to fix relays, part numbers. ... you name it, until I saw your photos!! Thanks again for taking the time to be detailed since it has made my night and my time on google finally over! Now i can fix this and sell the 4runner for some spending money to Reno this June 2008.
some more detail about my power window junction for 1994:
6 relays : labeled as RY1,RY2,RY3,RY4,RY5, RY6
THESES ARE arranged in coulmns of 2 ,3 rows ....not in a long row
I called radio shack and found a cheaper part , but after reading about your Sanyou relays with a higher rating, I believe I will try the same.
I pray the relays will let me roll down the window enough to unlock the tailgate from the inside(suck design) enough to make sure my Backyard mechanic actually attached the tailgate. If it falls on my big toe I will be sure to post you a picture of it while I am shoving it up someone's _________.
About 5 weeks later, I went to O'reillys and got a replacement window motor thinking I had an easy fix. After looking at your photos,I did all the same steps but one. If anyone decides to change out just the tailgate window motor, just reach around the right opening and there are (3) 8mm bolts which hold this motor that are reachable with a crescent wrench or socket wrench . Don't bother with disassembling the contraption, the window motor will ratchet right out. Resplice the wire of course, etc.
Despite this "refurb" window motor, No change. The window didn't budge.
After hearing a chirping warning sound and a few clicks from the back rear bumper I decided to open the side panel and found where these sounds came from. It was the main power window junction, hidden over the driver side rear tire just like your photos. This was a pain to get to and a tedious pull apart, especially when trying to remove the plastic side cargo box that houses the jack. Damn!
I have electronic board and soldering experience but ran into a dilemma about where, when, how to fix relays, part numbers. ... you name it, until I saw your photos!! Thanks again for taking the time to be detailed since it has made my night and my time on google finally over! Now i can fix this and sell the 4runner for some spending money to Reno this June 2008.
some more detail about my power window junction for 1994:
6 relays : labeled as RY1,RY2,RY3,RY4,RY5, RY6
THESES ARE arranged in coulmns of 2 ,3 rows ....not in a long row
I called radio shack and found a cheaper part , but after reading about your Sanyou relays with a higher rating, I believe I will try the same.
I pray the relays will let me roll down the window enough to unlock the tailgate from the inside(suck design) enough to make sure my Backyard mechanic actually attached the tailgate. If it falls on my big toe I will be sure to post you a picture of it while I am shoving it up someone's _________.
04-20-2008, 07:47 PM
#32
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I have a 1994 Toyota 4runner sr5 4w v6. Recently, I replaced the tailgate with a used one since the original rusted through. I had a Backyard mechanic do this work and he was knowledgable and reasonable enough to even change out the key switch to match my keys. I have no problems with him so far. However after I took it home, the tailgate window stopped working , the same day; still no problems with him as I write this since I found the tailgate in a junkyard.
About 5 weeks later, I went to O'reillys and got a replacement window motor thinking I had an easy fix. After looking at your photos,I did all the same steps but one. If anyone decides to change out just the tailgate window motor, just reach around the right opening and there are (3) 8mm bolts which hold this motor that are reachable with a crescent wrench or socket wrench . Don't bother with disassembling the contraption, the window motor will ratchet right out. Resplice the wire of course, etc.
Despite this "refurb" window motor, No change. The window didn't budge.
After hearing a chirping warning sound and a few clicks from the back rear bumper I decided to open the side panel and found where these sounds came from. It was the main power window junction, hidden over the driver side rear tire just like your photos. This was a pain to get to and a tedious pull apart, especially when trying to remove the plastic side cargo box that houses the jack. Damn!
I have electronic board and soldering experience but ran into a dilemma about where, when, how to fix relays, part numbers. ... you name it, until I saw your photos!! Thanks again for taking the time to be detailed since it has made my night and my time on google finally over! Now i can fix this and sell the 4runner for some spending money to Reno this June 2008.
some more detail about my power window junction for 1994:
6 relays : labeled as RY1,RY2,RY3,RY4,RY5, RY6
THESES ARE arranged in coulmns of 2 ,3 rows ....not in a long row
I called radio shack and found a cheaper part , but after reading about your Sanyou relays with a higher rating, I believe I will try the same.
I pray the relays will let me roll down the window enough to unlock the tailgate from the inside(suck design) enough to make sure my Backyard mechanic actually attached the tailgate. If it falls on my big toe I will be sure to post you a picture of it while I am shoving it up someone's _________.
About 5 weeks later, I went to O'reillys and got a replacement window motor thinking I had an easy fix. After looking at your photos,I did all the same steps but one. If anyone decides to change out just the tailgate window motor, just reach around the right opening and there are (3) 8mm bolts which hold this motor that are reachable with a crescent wrench or socket wrench . Don't bother with disassembling the contraption, the window motor will ratchet right out. Resplice the wire of course, etc.
Despite this "refurb" window motor, No change. The window didn't budge.
After hearing a chirping warning sound and a few clicks from the back rear bumper I decided to open the side panel and found where these sounds came from. It was the main power window junction, hidden over the driver side rear tire just like your photos. This was a pain to get to and a tedious pull apart, especially when trying to remove the plastic side cargo box that houses the jack. Damn!
I have electronic board and soldering experience but ran into a dilemma about where, when, how to fix relays, part numbers. ... you name it, until I saw your photos!! Thanks again for taking the time to be detailed since it has made my night and my time on google finally over! Now i can fix this and sell the 4runner for some spending money to Reno this June 2008.
some more detail about my power window junction for 1994:
6 relays : labeled as RY1,RY2,RY3,RY4,RY5, RY6
THESES ARE arranged in coulmns of 2 ,3 rows ....not in a long row
I called radio shack and found a cheaper part , but after reading about your Sanyou relays with a higher rating, I believe I will try the same.
I pray the relays will let me roll down the window enough to unlock the tailgate from the inside(suck design) enough to make sure my Backyard mechanic actually attached the tailgate. If it falls on my big toe I will be sure to post you a picture of it while I am shoving it up someone's _________.
04-20-2008, 08:58 PM
#33
Registered User
Thread Starter
Awesome, I'm glad it helped alot of people. I was pretty elated that I didn't have to buy a rear window motor as wreckers seem to think they are made of solid gold.
I've noticed that when I roll it up by "hot wiring" it, it rolls up faster than via the switches. I wonder if cleaning the switches would be useful. I bet it would be. I will test that out soon as I figure out how to remove the console switch without breaking it. They are stupidly expensive. I think they were in the order of $150 new from the dealer. I suppose there is a chance there is a fusible link somewhere between the battery and the motor, that would be more difficult to track down.
I've noticed that when I roll it up by "hot wiring" it, it rolls up faster than via the switches. I wonder if cleaning the switches would be useful. I bet it would be. I will test that out soon as I figure out how to remove the console switch without breaking it. They are stupidly expensive. I think they were in the order of $150 new from the dealer. I suppose there is a chance there is a fusible link somewhere between the battery and the motor, that would be more difficult to track down.
Last edited by Matt16; 04-20-2008 at 08:59 PM.
04-21-2008, 01:07 AM
#34
Matt, cleaning the window switch in the console should have nothing to do with it. This is a low current circuit and isnt in the path of the motor. The switch is just sending a signal to the control board which inturn is activating the motor. So, your switch is not directly working with the motor and cleaning it wont do anything with slow operation.
jimjam, if I understand you correctly, when you try to make the window go up you hear realys clicking and a beeping sound? Is the door lock pushed all the way down? Mine beeps if I dont have it locked.
If it is down and still beeps, there is a small switch that the lock mechanism activates that needs to be worked on. I activated mine by hand quickly a few times to free up the sticky "bar" attached to the switch. Works great now. My previously completely dead, no beeping window runs like new after changing relays and working that switch.
jimjam, if I understand you correctly, when you try to make the window go up you hear realys clicking and a beeping sound? Is the door lock pushed all the way down? Mine beeps if I dont have it locked.
If it is down and still beeps, there is a small switch that the lock mechanism activates that needs to be worked on. I activated mine by hand quickly a few times to free up the sticky "bar" attached to the switch. Works great now. My previously completely dead, no beeping window runs like new after changing relays and working that switch.
04-21-2008, 02:30 AM
#35
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I have done same fix, used relays found in an old car alarm system. Regarding above comment on Engine on/off status: its correct. Volatge available from battery is 12.6V, while Alternator gives 14-15. As voltage decreases, current (amp draw) increases for a given load.
04-21-2008, 09:48 AM
#36
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Thread Starter
Good to know, UKrunner. Any idea why the motor works best when hot wired (my test battery running the motor directly, bypassing all the wiring to the motor? Bad ground?
04-21-2008, 10:27 AM
#37
There has to be a volts drop somewhere. Without a wiring schematic I can't look at the circuit and give you any tips other than to look at all connectors for corrosion and loose fitting. It could also just be the length of wire in the loom vs your shorter jumper wires.
07-06-2008, 10:21 AM
#38
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just thought id bump this thread cause mine didnt work, to test if it was my relay, all i did was take the box apart and tap it, plugged it back in and wala, it worked, so im gonna go pick me up some relays and test my soldering skills
07-06-2008, 01:45 PM
#39
Registered User
I have an 86 4Runner with the same window problems everyone else is having, so i figure the relays for my rear window are going bad as well. The number on my relays are G4S-117P-B02, were can i find relays to replace the stock ones with ?. There are four relays on the board, does anybody know wich two are the ones that need to be replaced ?.
07-13-2008, 01:59 PM
#40
Registered User
Well, i never got an answer to my question above, but i went ahead and ordered new relays from Digi-Key p/n JS1-12V-F , i bought eight relays because i have two extra relay boxes, the cost with shipping was a little over eighteen dollars. It will be next weekend before i can try the rebuilt relay boxes out because my 4Runner doesn`t live with me, its kept at another location. I will let those interested know how it goes.
