Rear mount turbo 3vze finished
06-07-2014, 11:28 AM
#1
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Rear mount turbo 3vze finished
Alright i finished my rear mount turbo in my 91 toyota pickup 3vze before you flame me for it. I wanted to try somthing differnt from everyone else. I Need a little help with keeping if rich under boost i have a home made 7th injector kit. To trigger at 1psi of boost but once its one the ecu leans out the primary injector in order to maintain AFR 14.7 is there any way to get it to stay rich or keep it in open loop under partial throttle but not full boost.
06-08-2014, 07:43 AM
#2
Firstly, I'm going to need to see pictures of this setup. Secondly, are you using the cold start injector as the 7th injector? Do you have a AFR gauge? When you're at WOT, you are in open loop and the computer no longer tried to keep it stoich. I believe the 3vz and 5vz are factory set to try to achieve 12.5 afr in open loop WOT based on experience. So, until you meet the WOT criteria, you are not going to be able to keep the computer from trying to keep you at 14.7:1, 7th injector or not. This should not be a problem. 1 or 2 psi of boost in closed loop will not be a problem. I run like that quite a bit.
Of course you could run a high dollar piggyback and tune however you like.
Of course you could run a high dollar piggyback and tune however you like.
06-08-2014, 09:33 AM
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Charge pipe runs on top of the frame. And yes i have a wide band O2 to monitor it. My 7th injector is off a saab that is a single fan spray on or off mounted in the charge pipe just before the intake.
06-08-2014, 09:37 AM
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charge pipe on top of frame rail.
About the leaning out under partial throttle on the long gradual hill that dont require WOT for the open loop signal but still producing low boost
06-08-2014, 10:12 AM
#7
Do you have a shot of your engine bay as well? I'd like to see the intake mounted 7th injector.
Regarding the boosting closed loop problem, I'm affraid without a piggyback there's not much you can do. I'm in boost quite a bit in closed loop, well until my meth starts spraying. I usually have it set at 3psi. If you were concerned about EGTs, you could do a water injection kit on a hobbs switch set at 1psi. Also I suppose you are already running premium fuel and 1 step cooler spark plugs to combat detonatioN?
Just spitballing, but if you could put a solenoid on a hobbs switch on a sensor that is required for closed loops (like o2 or TPS), and "turn it off" forcing the ECU to use other predefined maps, you might be able to ghetto tune your closed loop boost issue. I face this same problem when towing. Follow me?
I'd like the extra power of the boost accompanied by fuel for long hills, but I have just learned to drive around it and just go "regular speed" or "super fast boosting up the hills" speed lol
Regarding the boosting closed loop problem, I'm affraid without a piggyback there's not much you can do. I'm in boost quite a bit in closed loop, well until my meth starts spraying. I usually have it set at 3psi. If you were concerned about EGTs, you could do a water injection kit on a hobbs switch set at 1psi. Also I suppose you are already running premium fuel and 1 step cooler spark plugs to combat detonatioN?
Just spitballing, but if you could put a solenoid on a hobbs switch on a sensor that is required for closed loops (like o2 or TPS), and "turn it off" forcing the ECU to use other predefined maps, you might be able to ghetto tune your closed loop boost issue. I face this same problem when towing. Follow me?
I'd like the extra power of the boost accompanied by fuel for long hills, but I have just learned to drive around it and just go "regular speed" or "super fast boosting up the hills" speed lol
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06-08-2014, 10:28 AM
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Im using the larger vafm thats used on 3vzfe. Its a internally wastegated CT26 not the twin scroll one its off a 93 supra and its set to 8psi but it never gets that high with fuel concerns i just let off the gas when the AFR creeps up. As for the 7th injector. Ill take some more pictures when i get off work. I was looking at the water meth kits but wanted something more reliable just in case i ran out or somthing underboost and destroyed the motor or on a long trip. Do you run a oil restrictor? Because i have really high oil pressure and under high rpm 85psi and get a little smoke from the turbo.
06-08-2014, 10:43 AM
#10
I do not run a restrictor with my Holset. I run an adequate sized drain line -10an IIRC. I get a bit of white smoke sometimes if I let off under boost too. What are your AFRs under open loop WOT?
I agree on the failsafe and opted for the expensive Coolingmist autolearn with with failsafe box. If something happened to my meth at 14psi, I'd be in trouble. I'm running straight meth ~1400cc/min as my extra fueling.
I agree on the failsafe and opted for the expensive Coolingmist autolearn with with failsafe box. If something happened to my meth at 14psi, I'd be in trouble. I'm running straight meth ~1400cc/min as my extra fueling.
06-08-2014, 11:01 AM
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I have 1/2 drain line. Also what scavenging pump are you using? And are you using a oil catch can or right from turbo into pump? And do you have a rough idea of gpm through a 4an hose?
06-08-2014, 01:05 PM
#12
I'm using an Ebay pump labeled "Boost Doctor". I do not use a catch can. No idea on the GPM. I imagine there's a really long formula somewhere, but I can't math very good 
Where are you located? The boosted 3vz is very interesting, glad you decided to share the project. I'm still wanting pics of your engine bay when possible.
Where are you located? The boosted 3vz is very interesting, glad you decided to share the project. I'm still wanting pics of your engine bay when possible.
Last edited by vasinvictor; 06-08-2014 at 01:08 PM.
06-08-2014, 06:14 PM
#16
All that fancy shmancy "looky how clever I am" going on. And then I see a breather on the PCV. Not so smart...
You'll be regretting that before too long. You DEFINITELY need that routed correctly. Or...don't say I didn't tell you so.
But hey...maybe you like reringing engines.
And what the hell is that disconnected sensor looking thing on the water outlet? What's the point of that? Besides causing some coolant flow restriction. Or that other one at the back of the VAFM? Let me guess, another IAT sensor. Why? You gonna be able to do anything about it if the intake air's too cool or too hot?
You'll be regretting that before too long. You DEFINITELY need that routed correctly. Or...don't say I didn't tell you so.But hey...maybe you like reringing engines.
And what the hell is that disconnected sensor looking thing on the water outlet? What's the point of that? Besides causing some coolant flow restriction. Or that other one at the back of the VAFM? Let me guess, another IAT sensor. Why? You gonna be able to do anything about it if the intake air's too cool or too hot?
Last edited by MudHippy; 06-08-2014 at 06:16 PM.
06-08-2014, 06:39 PM
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Well lets start with the coolant hose sensor that was for my two speed ford taurus fans. But i didnt like how hot high speed kicked on so i got a adjustable one. And just left that one there. Till either i find a lower temp for the high side to come on or just put another hose on there. and for the vafm sensor that is a 1psi pressure switch that triggers the 7th injector which i disconnected when i removed my intake tube The other day and havent had a chance to plug it back in with work being busy.
What would the correct way to route the breather. I like to learn any advice is greatly appreciated
What would the correct way to route the breather. I like to learn any advice is greatly appreciated
Last edited by Turbopickup24; 06-08-2014 at 06:42 PM.
06-08-2014, 08:38 PM
#18
Well lets start with the coolant hose sensor that was for my two speed ford taurus fans. But i didnt like how hot high speed kicked on so i got a adjustable one. And just left that one there. Till either i find a lower temp for the high side to come on or just put another hose on there. and for the vafm sensor that is a 1psi pressure switch that triggers the 7th injector which i disconnected when i removed my intake tube The other day and havent had a chance to plug it back in with work being busy.
What would the correct way to route the breather. I like to learn any advice is greatly appreciated
What would the correct way to route the breather. I like to learn any advice is greatly appreciated
Except for the PCV breather. You need to get that connected back into the intake hose just before the throttle body. Like Toyota had it to begin with. It's supposed to be part of a finely tuned PCV system. If you put a breather on it like that you negate it being able to pull crankcase vapors under conditions were the PCV valve isn't capable of doing that job on its own. If you leave it like that, you'll soon have very bad things going on inside your engine as a result. Fuel diluted oil, acidic corrosion and/or rust from excessive moisture working its way into wherever it possibly can in there. Not good...
06-08-2014, 09:44 PM
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Well, now that I get it, you should probably flame me. Because those aren't half bad ideas.
Except for the PCV breather. You need to get that connected back into the intake hose just before the throttle body. Like Toyota had it to begin with. It's supposed to be part of a finely tuned PCV system. If you put a breather on it like that you negate it being able to pull crankcase vapors under conditions were the PCV valve isn't capable of doing that job on its own. If you leave it like that, you'll soon have very bad things going on inside your engine as a result. Fuel diluted oil, acidic corrosion and/or rust from excessive moisture working its way into wherever it possibly can in there. Not good...
Except for the PCV breather. You need to get that connected back into the intake hose just before the throttle body. Like Toyota had it to begin with. It's supposed to be part of a finely tuned PCV system. If you put a breather on it like that you negate it being able to pull crankcase vapors under conditions were the PCV valve isn't capable of doing that job on its own. If you leave it like that, you'll soon have very bad things going on inside your engine as a result. Fuel diluted oil, acidic corrosion and/or rust from excessive moisture working its way into wherever it possibly can in there. Not good...
06-09-2014, 10:28 AM
#20
Good question. And I'm not sure I know the answer. This subject isn't something I have any personal experience with. So before I potentially steer you further off track, I'll just let you take what I've said and apply some more to it. Then you'll have to make your decision based on that. The only thing I feel like I do know for sure at this point is, what you've done definitely isn't the "best" way to do it. And, if I'm not too far off base, what I've suggested would probably be "better". At least in some ways. Minimally it would fix the vacuum leak/unmetered air intrusion you've created. Unless there's a breather on the other side too.
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_pdf/PCVBypass.pdf
In doing some quick research on the web, the "best" idea I came across was to install an electric pump to make sure blowby is being pulled out of the crankcase at all times, or at times when the PCV system isn't sufficient(like when boost is enough to cancel out the pressure exerted by the blowby causing it to not function at all). Which is probably the way I'd go. Because it sounds like the safest. Blowby is bad for the engine's internals(not just for the environment, which actually doesn't concern me in the least). It just needs to get out of the crankcase as quickly and efficiently as possible IMO. The rest is relatively unimportant(to me).
Its important to note 2 significant issues:
1) The crankcase ventilation airflow is metered since the vent tube is located after the MAF. Because the airflow is metered, it must make it into the intake manifold to assure that the air/fuel ratio is correct. Therefore, if we bypass the PCV system, it must done in such way that no unmetered air can reach the intake manifold, for if it does, the air/fuel ratio will be adversely affected. Similarly, any metered airflow in the PCV system must make it all the way to the intake for the same reason. What this means is, if you bypass the PCV system, it must be bypassed completely, both the inlet and the outlet air transfer paths must be blocked. You just can’t block off one and not the other.(Which is what you've done, unless there's a breather on the other side too.)
2) The PCV valve is intended to be opened by intake manifold vacuum (negative pressure), but can also be opened by positive crankcase pressure. Therefore, whenever vacuum is present in the intake manifold, the crankcase pressure will vent into the manifold and the ventilation air is “drawn” into the intake manifold through the PCV valve all the way through the crankcase, vent tube, MAF, and air filter. Furthermore, when positive crankcase pressure is present, it will be vented through the PCV valve into the intake manifold. There’s no problem at all under most circumstances, but there can be very significant issues in certain applications, especially if substantial cylinder blowby is present, if the PCV system is overly effective, or if supercharged.
1) The crankcase ventilation airflow is metered since the vent tube is located after the MAF. Because the airflow is metered, it must make it into the intake manifold to assure that the air/fuel ratio is correct. Therefore, if we bypass the PCV system, it must done in such way that no unmetered air can reach the intake manifold, for if it does, the air/fuel ratio will be adversely affected. Similarly, any metered airflow in the PCV system must make it all the way to the intake for the same reason. What this means is, if you bypass the PCV system, it must be bypassed completely, both the inlet and the outlet air transfer paths must be blocked. You just can’t block off one and not the other.(Which is what you've done, unless there's a breather on the other side too.)
2) The PCV valve is intended to be opened by intake manifold vacuum (negative pressure), but can also be opened by positive crankcase pressure. Therefore, whenever vacuum is present in the intake manifold, the crankcase pressure will vent into the manifold and the ventilation air is “drawn” into the intake manifold through the PCV valve all the way through the crankcase, vent tube, MAF, and air filter. Furthermore, when positive crankcase pressure is present, it will be vented through the PCV valve into the intake manifold. There’s no problem at all under most circumstances, but there can be very significant issues in certain applications, especially if substantial cylinder blowby is present, if the PCV system is overly effective, or if supercharged.
In doing some quick research on the web, the "best" idea I came across was to install an electric pump to make sure blowby is being pulled out of the crankcase at all times, or at times when the PCV system isn't sufficient(like when boost is enough to cancel out the pressure exerted by the blowby causing it to not function at all). Which is probably the way I'd go. Because it sounds like the safest. Blowby is bad for the engine's internals(not just for the environment, which actually doesn't concern me in the least). It just needs to get out of the crankcase as quickly and efficiently as possible IMO. The rest is relatively unimportant(to me).
Last edited by MudHippy; 06-09-2014 at 12:08 PM.
