UZI - SUICIDE

I am refering to this information I copied from the "Bible"
Specifically the line in red...

Thanks to DRM for saving this, and Tim for giving the advice.

Originally posted by DRM
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Ok ready, first pull off the efi fuse for a couple of seconds, then reinstall it. Grab some Autolite #65 plugs, and side gap them at .048. Set the valve clearance to .011 cold. Install the factory carbed thermostat {Pappy: it's a 180* vs. 190*). Adjust the AFM 3 teeth rich (under 5000 a.s.l.). Start the motor, let idle till you reach operating temp. Set the timing at 16* "not short circuted," {Pappy: about the same as 8* shorted} then take it for a putt, re check the timing, and enjoy. Leave the airbox alone, for it's not a cause of starvation on a stocker, and don't worry about the muffler for now. If you're going to modify the exhaust, start with a header, and 2.5" headpipe."

A follow-up from later that day:

"... you pull the EFI fuse to start the ECU's regathering of fuel mixture readings, because you are altering them via the AFM. The #65's are a hotter plug, and will in this case create a more efficient burn. You WILL NOT detonate when the timing is set 16* NOT SHORT CIRCUTED, because the end reading when short circuted will be 8* advanced. The afm adjustment enrichens the motor aproximately 3cc. This is necessary due to the timing advance, which requires a proper mixture."

I found the AFM 3 teeth to be too rich for my high desert home (driveway is 5200 ft) and have backed it down to 1 tooth rich. Thanks to DRM for saving this, and Tim for giving the advice.

My question:
is that valve adjustment spec for All valves, or just Intake or just Exhaust..

AND to follow up

if that spec is for either or, what should the rest of the valves be set to?

AND

Do I use the Carbed 180* Thermostat on my 22RE if not what should i get?


I am stuck here in Northern North Dakota, it seems when it is about -30 at night and a daytime high of -5 a 1989 Toyota 4x4 22RE from Portland Oregon (where it is probobly a very comfortable 50 degrees right now) is very very unhappy and is doing some weird ..
I am taking it into a local shop tomorrow to have it un-jinxed and I was gonna have him go ahead and do the things I got from The Bible to it as well (it ticks really loud and the guy I bought it from had replaced the head and cam etc. and I have questions regarding his mechanical skill level)

Thanks alot you guys for the (usually, almost always actually) good information and time and effort all you big dogs put into these forums..

jennygirl

I did mine at .008 intake / .011 exhaust, cold. YMMV and some say .007 for intake when cold.

I believe FSM says .008 intake / .012 exhaust, hot.

The tick is probably a valve or two out of adjustment, but you should also check timing guides while you're at it. Hopefully he went ahead and did the metal guides! Tick can also come from valve cover being a little too tight. A mechanic's stethoscope will help you pinpoint where it's coming from or at least give an idea which valve it might be- if it is valves. A lot will say some ticks are normal.

I have the 2 stage 190* thermostat from LCE. It keeps the engine a bit cooler, I did notice a slight change in my temp gauge (needle used to be flat horizontal, now sits just under). It's an OEM replacement

Hope this helps!

UZI - SUICIDE

yep.. needed that other number.. I was pretty sure they all didnt go to .011

Does the .008 intake / .011 exhaust, cold settings run pretty quiet?
why do some go .007?
just personal preferance, performance, quietness, or to stand out in the crowd?

2 stage thermostat huh?? not real sure what that is, but if it is what i need to make these mods work right, I want it..
I am doing these mods because it is supposed to improve power..
My truck is pretty but it is and always has been in the few months i have owned it completly gutless..
I cant hit 80 standing on the gas pedal on flat ground.. it struggles to get to 75.. Nothing off the line, and nothing in the middle...
chaulked it up to improper valve adjustment (I hope thats it)
Supposedly had a brand new (not rebuilt) head and cam that had about 150 miles on it when i bought the truck, but who knows i may have bought it from a liar, a flippin' idiot or both.. I will feel better after a real mechanic looks at it..

yeah the first nite i was here (last nite) was almost 30 below outside and my truck is hating me pretty bad right now.. It is running like it is at half throttle and wont idle down, nearly impossible to shift (I chalk that up to extremely cold 75w90) The little heater control thing on the firewall is leaking and no longer functioning , I dumped a little strait antifreeze in and ran the truck awhile, I hope that little plactic deal is the only thing in my cooling system broke.. and apparently there is enough moisture in the brake fluid to crack where the plastic reservor and Brake Master Cylinder attach.. I hope thats the only thng broken in my brake system..
I am up here in the middle of nowhere and about 2200 miles over hill and over dale across ND and Montana (ID and WA dont count, it is normal temps there) to get home to Portland so I really really dont wanna break down on the way, no cell reception to boot..
A local told me where a shop is with ASE Certified mechanics (I insist) and I am gonna be there bright and early hoping to get my rig in and out tomorrow so I can get outta here...

Thanks for your reply..
Maybe someday you can ask me something and I can come up with some sort of answer that can easily be corrected by a smart person...

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I believe this is the part number for the Dual Stage Thermostat Part # 90916-03070 for Dual Stage Thermostat.

As far as idle, have you tried burping the system? Raise the front end as high as possible and with it idling and the radiator cap off, let the thermostat open about 4 or 5 times. Air in the system will cause erratic idling.

RJR

One thing to note about valve adjustment, is that it is better to error on the side of more clearance than less. Too much clearance causes more ticking and can be annoying, but too little clearance can prevent the valves from completely closing and burn them up in fairly short order.

I figure as long as my valves are ticking on startup, I'm probably OK. When they stop making noise when cold is when I'll know for sure it's time to dive in and adjust them.

BTW, I doubt your power problems are due to improper valve adjustment, unless they've been too tight for too long and some of them are burned and leaking. That would show up in a compression test.

UZI - SUICIDE

Well, I drove it to a shop this morning and first guy was booked up.. I had let it warm up a couple maybe 3 minutes and when i got there (about a half mile) it was steaming from under the hood much worse than a drippy heater valve would produce.. So I took a good look.. The back of the radiator had at least 3 green frozen runs down it.. Shot...
I took it to a second shop and i have an appointment in about an hour to have it tore apart and maybe adjust the valves, maybe not.. I just want to know for sure what is damaged wouldnt be surprised if i end up buying a water pump too..

I have already ordered a new radiator, Heater control valve, and the brake master cylinder $304 and change and will be in tomorrow.. what i hope to accomplish today is gert the bad parts out and make sure there are not any more bad parts so I can order them and get them all at once in the morning and not have to spend another day waiting on a part..

It ran fine when I parked it, and overnight after the hard freeze all the problems developed.. Maybe the idle was due to the cooling system being froze.. Thats my best guess.. It drove 1300 miles here with no complaints and the next day.. BAM..

Learning stuff is expensive.. I learned just cuz the water is green dont mean the water is good if ya park your truck in a deep freeze freezer overnight..

Thanks.. I am gonna go order that thermostat right now and hit the shop

UZI - SUICIDE

Do you disagree with .008 - .011 settings?

I am not a mechanic, but I am a perfectionest, not perfectly perfect.. but i like stuff done right.. So since I cannot do this myself I only get one shot to have someone do it for me.. I have looked around and there are some who go strait by the FSM and some who go for max performance with minimum money and the happy few that go balls out no matter the cost.. And the valve adjustments can start arguments pretty easy when those groups get togather.. But it seems to me that it is widely agreed that a thousandth under the FSM specs is a pretty good setting..

I am going back and forth on having the valves adjusted here.. I think I wanna get it fixed to where i can get it home.. I am burning a limited supply of cash and i still have a long unpredictible drive in front of me...

RJR

I don't disagree with the numbers in the FSM, but Toyota specs doing it while the engine is hot. How much it changes when the engine is cold is kind of a guess. I was mostly pointing out that "ticking" is not the worst possible situation when it comes to non-hydraulic valve trains. Too tight is worse. It might be "widely agreed" that a thousandth under is a good setting, but I'm not part of that group.

Using the numbers for the stock 22re cam profile, setting the valves .001" under opens the valve about .15 degrees earlier, closes it about .15 degrees later, and increases the total area under the open curve by about .25%. I don't see how this would have a measurable effect on performance, and the risk doesn't seem worth it.

Odin

Where is this Toyota Bible you're referring too?
.048 sure seems like an awfully big spark plug gap when stock is something like .031

Even the drag racing Chevy's I worked on with stock GM HEI distributors only liked a gap of about .045-.050. They do idle better with a larger gap but suffer when the rpm gets up there. It's also harder on the spark plug wires and coil with a shorter life span. I can't imagine these Toyota systems are putting out that intense of a spark. But I am knew to the Toyota stuff.

UZI - SUICIDE

I ran across it at Marlin Crawlers forum, I mistakenly thought it was posted here at YotaTech when I started this thread but I just googled it and found out it is actually at pirate4x4 forum...

I am not a mechanic, like I said, thats why I asked, but Marlin Crawler seems to have a lot of respect so when I saw it referred to there, I kinda assumed the "Bible" was.. well.. The Bible...
Maybe not...

UZI - SUICIDE

Aha.. you know what that stuff does...
So does any of the mod make sense.. If ya wanted them to open earlier to compensate for the advanced timing or something like that... I am probobly better off just to leave it alone huh?

I didnt mean to offend ya (if I did) I am just curious and i read alot and this is one of the things that there are diffrent opinons on.. I have read to set them at .007 or .008 or .00? <-- somebody recommended to keep at it till the valvetrain was quiet which started a rukus, thats not the way to go I assume..

RJR

No offense at all. I'm just kind of a skeptic, and as an engineer for a large hi-tech corporation, I know how much work goes into the original design, characterization, and testing of stuff at quality conscious places like Toyota. When someone comes up with a "better" idea, I tend to want to run the numbers to see if it really makes sense, or it's just someone shooting from the hip.

That's not to say the original design engineers don't make mistakes or let things slip through, but generally they have good reasons for why things are the way they are. Sometimes, of course, their tradeoffs are different then what a particular user may want, for example in terms of reliability vs. performance. But if you choose to deviate significantly, you have to understand you've just become your own test lab, with nowhere near the resources and money to fund mistakes that a company like Toyota has.

Specifically looking at the valve timing, the numbers just don't support that monkeying with the valve lash will have a significant effect on valve timing. Valve lift is about .4 inches, and the maximum you can mess with the lash without either failing to close (too tight) or getting a lot of noise (too loose) is about .005". That's an 80:1 ratio. When you consider that a valve does all of its opening or closing over about 60 degrees, that 80:1 works out to less than a degree of timing change. Compare that to typical performance cams, and you'll see they change the valve timing at least 10-20 degrees for significant performance changes.