Well I hope the crank seal is the round one that pops outta the front of the oil pump. Cause I just got done replacing it and I replaced the black rtv and i found the two bolt holes that thook was mentioning and sealed em up good. so im letting to silicone sit for 6 hours then i gotta go drive and get my wife from work so ill let you guys know if fixin these two things fixed it all up or what. Just wanna says thanks so much everyone and i cant wait till i know enough to help you guys one day

 

So you didn't take the excellent advice about cleaning the engine and then starting it up and simply looking to see where the oil is coming from ?
Instead you simply started replacing and sealing stuff ...
sigh...........................




Fred

 

For the timing chain, the head doesn't have to come off. Being careful to make sure the gasket surfaces are clean for reassembly is important. Shops may remove the head, but remember they charge an hourly rate and don't care what it ends up costing the owner. Doesn't mean its any better method than doing a chain w/o taking the head off. I've done two of them with over 20k since with no leaks/no problems. The oilpan is easy to remove if you take out the motor mount bolts and the trans crossmember bolts and jack up the motor by the bellhousing.

 

I think it would be stupid NOT to pull the head. Because, simply removing the timing cover (part of the head gasket!) could possibly damage it.

Either way, its not my truck...

 

If you pull the head, at a minimum, you have to take the head and have it resurfaced, don't you? Has there ever been a head in the history of the universe that did not need to be surfaced prior to re-installation?

Seems that the only danger in not pulling the head is that you might experience a minor oil leak. If it occurs and it is bothersome, then the job of replacing the head gasket/machining the head can be performed.

 

Well, I don't see what the problem is with trying to fix it at the most probable point of failure. I mean honestly what is your big problem you got with doing this? I dont know where or with what to even clean the engine with, not to mention its the only vehicle I own and I have to drive at least 5 miles to get anywhere that has anything even remotely useful because of where I live. It's much more reasonable to assume its the front seal because several people described having the exact same problem and they then said fixing the seal was the trick. If I didn't wan't advice from people on this forum I wouldn't be here, but the whole point of even starting a thread is to talk to people who have had similar problems and then figure out the solution. I mean is replacing the seal a bad thing to do anyway? Is using a new gasket on an engine with 300k miles an illogical idea? I really don't think so. So if you wanna ride someones ass go somewhere in real life and do it, I really don't need to hear negative comments on a problem with my vehicle. Like I said, I am here for constructive and helpful criticism and/or comments.

That being said replacing the front seal DID fix the problem, thank you very much everyone who actually HELPED me pin point the source of this.

 

Glad you got it fixed. Most people would assume that since you just did the timing chain you would have done oil seal too... since there's no reason that the oil seal cannot be reused if it wasn't leaking before you did the chain. So, in FredTJ's defense, and the others who suggested it as well, they are correct about the way to locate the problem would be to clean it up and look for the leak. Your issue could've been a leak around the oil pump, the bypass valve, leak from the front of the head gasket, the oil filter spraying oil forwards... the list goes on. You're lucky that it was the front seal otherwise you'd be back here asking for more help and everyone would go back and ask "Why didn't you clean it up like we suggested and find where the leak came from to begin with?"

Having said that... 2 qts is a lot of oil to lose in 20 miles so maybe have a look at your PCV valve. It would take a lot of pressure to blow that much oil out of a leaking oil seal. I've got a leaking front seal in mine and I lose about 1/2 qt every 400-500 miles.

 

Gentle? Well, there's no reason for a person to get an attitude just because they disagree, is there? It's all good, mate.

Blowing a timing assembly is a different matter altogether. The oil pan NEEDS to be pulled if that happens. All the shrapnel will collect on the oil pickup strainer, otherwise. On a regular maintenance repair, not necessary. As for the head, if you can't get the cover on the dowels, then of course pull the head. The way it was explained to me, though, is you have to shave the head gasket off entirely to avoid reassembling with a damaged gasket. Take a sharp chisel and chop it right where the head and block meet. Then, reseal it with ultra grey Permatex or FIPG.....and, let it tac up a bit before you reinstall the cover. This way, the sealant doesn't smear all over the place when trying to get it on. Same for the oil pan.

Note.........for anyone, if you pull or even loosen the head, the head gasket must be replaced. (Just to clarify). But, the worst that could happen if you try and reinstall the cover without pulling the head and resealing that area with silicone....and, the original gasket is buggered.....is you'll spring an oil leak and possibly a vacuum leak (which sucks, and will need to be repaired), but the water jackets in the head and block are sealed off from the front surface area of the block and on back. In other words, no danger of an oil/coolant breach.

Nelson......Fred's exasperation comes from experience. His charm is not always issued with a pair of kid gloves , but he does have a lot to offer. Anyone who's been around vehicles and vehicle forums long enough to have made a few repairs and read about many different issues knows about backtracking and time/effort wasted where it could have been avoided. Everyone hates to see it and is only trying to offer a logical procedure. But, when someone chooses to ignore learned advice where time was taken to give it, it's easy to lose patience. I'm sure you've been there. This is not to negate your response at all, just suggesting to try and not it take it too personally.


Abe.....consider this. When I blew my main seal, I lost over 2qts. within a matter of a few minutes. But, the engine wasn't up to temp and I was on the throttle = high pressure. On the other hand, I added more oil to limp it home and repair it (1/8mi or so), and it didn't leak so drastically thereafter. I'm guessing Nelson's case was very similar.

 

The difference is you blew the seal and NelsonM just put the timing cover back on and drove it 20 miles and came back 2 quarts low. I'm guessing the cover was replaced using the old parts since the autoparts stores' Felpro #TCS45685 comes with the oil seal for 5-8 bucks. If it was in the set, why wasn't it used? I don't know.
Guess we all live and learn to ask more questions before jumping to conclusions. Hopefully though, we don't get bawled out because we ask them.

 

Well, I was assuming the seal blew on his because he had oil spray all over the engine bay. (Hey, that rhymed...) But, more than that, I was just trying to illustrate the possibility of high pressure in his case. The seal could have been just loose enough and blown before he got far into his 20 mile trek and not noticed. Although, one would think there'd be a lot of smoke to notice, wouldn't one?

Anyway, pointless speculating, I guess. Problem fixed. Hoorah!

Live and learn...

 

Glad you got it fixed. Crank seal was the first and only thing that came to mind when I read the Oil everywhere. They seem to like to go when its good and cold out and you start plowing.

 

So, which two is it on the oil pump that requires the silicone? everything i've seen in manuals indicates the top-most one only...