New Head, New Head Gasket-Still Dumping Coolant and White Smoke. HELP!! - YotaTech Forums



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New Head, New Head Gasket-Still Dumping Coolant and White Smoke. HELP!!

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Old 02-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #1
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New Head, New Head Gasket-Still Dumping Coolant and White Smoke. HELP!!

I'm going to run you guys through everything I did in the hopes that maybe you can see where I may have gone wrong...

1995 Toyota Pickup
22RE
4x4
California Emissions
180K miles (current)

The head-gasket blew on a trip down to San Fran about four months ago and I have slowly and laboriously disassembled the engine and put everything back together.
Purchased a new head from eBay for a little over $200. Did not have it machined as I assumed it was cast and then machined at the factory (possibly mistake #1).
Before installing new head, thoroughly cleaned the deck on the block with a Roloc bristle attached to an air grinder. Also used carb cleaner and the like, Came out looking very shiny but was never machined (possible mistake #2). I did check it with a square and it seemed fine to me (possible mistake #3).

Put everything back together, filled it up with fluids, and cranked it over for the first time today. Immediately upon starting up (after I rotated the distributor a bit to get a rough idle, and I mean really rough), white smoke was billowing from the tail pipe as it had done when the head gasket initially failed (failed on number 2 cylinder initially). I left it on for a second with my dad holding the gas so it wouldn't die hoping it would clear out (assuming it was left over...whatever) and I started seeing drops of coolant coming from the exhaust as well as from some known leaks in my muffler. Killed it and started poking around.

Popped all of the plugs out and turned over a couple of times looking for splashing. Didn't see any. #4 plug seemed cleaner than the other three, quite noticeably actually. Suspect for sure. Also, I have coolant dripping off of the tranny onto the ground. Could this be that stupid block-off plate on the back of the head? I didn't use FIPG there as my gasket seemed pretty sturdy but others have said it's a necessity. Haven't done a compression test yet-that's happening tomorrow. Also, I still need to drain oil and inspect that as well. I'm just hoping this is some dumbass thing like that block-off plate. But how would coolant get into the exhaust? I can only see one option for that and that is I screwed up the head-gasket install. It was my first time and the head-gasket was on the flimsier side (came in a full engine kit for $45). Any advice would appreciated. Go easy on me.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:13 PM   #2
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I'm going to run you guys through everything I did in the hopes that maybe you can see where I may have gone wrong...

1995 Toyota Pickup
22RE
4x4
California Emissions
180K miles (current)

The head-gasket blew on a trip down to San Fran about four months ago and I have slowly and laboriously disassembled the engine and put everything back together.
Purchased a new head from eBay for a little over $200. Did not have it machined as I assumed it was cast and then machined at the factory (possibly mistake #1).
Before installing new head, thoroughly cleaned the deck on the block with a Roloc bristle attached to an air grinder. Also used carb cleaner and the like, Came out looking very shiny but was never machined (possible mistake #2). I did check it with a square and it seemed fine to me (possible mistake #3).

Put everything back together, filled it up with fluids, and cranked it over for the first time today. Immediately upon starting up (after I rotated the distributor a bit to get a rough idle, and I mean really rough), white smoke was billowing from the tail pipe as it had done when the head gasket initially failed (failed on number 2 cylinder initially). I left it on for a second with my dad holding the gas so it wouldn't die hoping it would clear out (assuming it was left over...whatever) and I started seeing drops of coolant coming from the exhaust as well as from some known leaks in my muffler. Killed it and started poking around.

Popped all of the plugs out and turned over a couple of times looking for splashing. Didn't see any. #4 plug seemed cleaner than the other three, quite noticeably actually. Suspect for sure. Also, I have coolant dripping off of the tranny onto the ground. Could this be that stupid block-off plate on the back of the head? I didn't use FIPG there as my gasket seemed pretty sturdy but others have said it's a necessity. Haven't done a compression test yet-that's happening tomorrow. Also, I still need to drain oil and inspect that as well. I'm just hoping this is some dumbass thing like that block-off plate. But how would coolant get into the exhaust? I can only see one option for that and that is I screwed up the head-gasket install. It was my first time and the head-gasket was on the flimsier side (came in a full engine kit for $45). Any advice would appreciated. Go easy on me.
Did you use new head bolts?
Did you chase head bolt holes and clean debris out of bottom of them?
Did you check head for flatness?

worth it to use Toyota HG.

make sure to flush heater core, I learned that the hard way.

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Old 02-11-2018, 11:24 PM   #3
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There is an egr coolant passage on the back side of the head, is this what you mean by block off plate? Did someone remove the egr system? (Without the egr plumbing this is not a source of water into the intake, but will leak if you use a cheap (paper) gasket and no sealant.

A "square" is not a precise measuring tool used for engine building, you need a machinist straightedge (dead flat) accurate to sub-thousandths.

A compression test may not show you anything useful, it depends on the severity of a "possible leak". Take for example the gasket I blew last year.


You can hear this leak, from the coolant system to the cylinder even with the sparkplugs in (more so without)
#2
#3
#1
Compression within a pound or few percentage points.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:57 PM   #4
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Red face

Seems there is a bad torque figure in all the manuals

You did torque the head bolts to 65 foot pounds ?? In the proper sequence ??

I was pressed for time farmed out a head gasket job they got the 55 foot pounds out of a manual gasket failed in about 5 minutes
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:17 AM   #5
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Thanks for the replies guys. Yes, the EGR plate is what I was referring to as the block-off plate. I got new head studs and torqued them in sequence to 65 pounds. I am thinking that when I cleaned the deck, I ˟˟˟˟ed it up with that Roloc disk. I figured a square was a bad choice.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:21 AM   #6
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Hold up a minute-check this out on LCís page. Whatís the difference between a head bolt and a head stud?

www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/techpages/eng2.html

Theyíve got the bolts at 62 and the studs at 90?
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:52 AM   #7
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Are you sure you got a "new" head for a little over $200? I've been out of the 4 cylinder loop for a while but that sounds like used prices to me. If so, you should have taken it to a machine shop to be inspected first.
Also, don't buy cheap gaskets or cheap toilet paper... both for the same reason, you'll have a ˟˟˟˟ty day!
Before you tear back into it make sure to do a cooling system pressure test. if it holds pressure and isn't loosing coolant cross you fingers and hope that there was just a lot of coolant in the exhaust from the first failure and you just need to burn/blow it out.
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:40 PM   #8
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For what it's worth, I had similar issues after a head gasket job that I did. Turns out I had hoses switched.
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #9
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As for studs vrs bolts... 1 or 2 bolts also double function as oil passage. So stud kits are machined to let oil pass and some are not. Not researched this in years so kind of out of it.

If you did not thuroughly clean the block holes for head bolts/studs debris could prevent proper clamping forces and result in a leak.

Hope neither of these is the issue and it is a simple fix.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:13 AM   #10
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couple of places where coolant comes from which may actualy be ur issue.
Auxilliary air valve.
Intake manifold gasket ( I bet this was ur issue all along)
Transmission cooling line in radiator (u mentioned coolant coming out of the transmission)

If ur head was warped, or u didnt torque it proerly, there will be oil in colant, and or coolant in oil. If this is not haening, consider the head gasket to likely be flat enough and ur issue is elsewhere.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:17 AM   #11
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couple of places where coolant comes from which may actualy be ur issue.
Auxilliary air valve.
Intake manifold gasket ( I bet this was ur issue all along)
Transmission cooling line in radiator (u mentioned coolant coming out of the transmission)

If ur head was warped, or u didnt torque it proerly, there will be oil in colant, and or coolant in oil. If this is not haening, consider the head gasket to likely be flat enough and ur issue is elsewhere.
When it first failed, the oil was filled with coolant. That was the dead give away that the head gasket had failed. Plus, one of the cylinders was milky white. The intake manifold gasket is definitely a good place to start. The gasket set I got from ITM seemed a little flimsy. Could I throw some FIPG around the orifice where coolant enters the manifold for the thermo housing and try it again?

Also, the LC Engineering bolt specs page says 62 Ft.Lbs. for the head bolt torque but others here have said 65. Could three pounds make a difference?

Thank you so much for all of the help everyone. Means a ton!
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:24 AM   #12
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I'm thinking I'm gonna tear it down and replace it with the Toyota HG. Then I'll remove the EGR plate and replace it with a better gasket and some FIPG. Also, I will remove the intake manifold gasket and replace and add FIPG around coolant orifices. Then, I'll slap it back together and see what happens. Thoughts?
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:05 AM   #13
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You used a thin paper (itm) gasket for the intake to head and no sealant, this is very likely your issue. Did you straighten out the lower intake mating surface, particularly around the coolant passage bolt holes you will find deformation of the AL. It's not a super critical surface, not something you'll need to take to a machine shop, you can cross file it (use a wide two inch flat file) just a few passes will do you will be able to see it's "good enough" once you start seeing the file marks around the passage and not just on the bolt holes.

PS, the manual says to use gasket goop here on the water passages iirc.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:00 PM   #14
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God I'm learning so much right now. It would be so NEAT if that solves this issue. I'm going to start with that first.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:02 PM   #15
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Again, thanks everyone. Beers are one me.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:03 PM   #16
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You used a thin paper (itm) gasket for the intake to head and no sealant, this is very likely your issue. Did you straighten out the lower intake mating surface, particularly around the coolant passage bolt holes you will find deformation of the AL. It's not a super critical surface, not something you'll need to take to a machine shop, you can cross file it (use a wide two inch flat file) just a few passes will do you will be able to see it's "good enough" once you start seeing the file marks around the passage and not just on the bolt holes.

PS, the manual says to use gasket goop here on the water passages iirc.
Would it really dump that much coolant into the system, however?
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:25 PM   #17
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Before you tear back into it make sure to do a cooling system pressure test. if it holds pressure and isn't loosing coolant cross you fingers and hope that there was just a lot of coolant in the exhaust from the first failure and you just need to burn/blow it out.
have you done a pressure test?
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:51 PM   #18
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Would it really dump that much coolant into the system, however?
Yes! Look at the pinhole in my head gasket. Now think about the size of that water passage. The passage in the HG totals under an inch (4◊0.25), the water jacket opening at the intake is something like 1.5◊2" for a total of seven inchs
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have you done a pressure test?
This is worth doing just to be certain it wasn't residual water in the exhaust. However if it didn't clear up and got worse over the run time it's not likely that simple.. As a benefit it will point out other leaks you might of overlooked (besides the internal one and the egr coolant passage.).
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:55 PM   #19
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Yes! Look at the pinhole in my head gasket. Now think about the size of that water passage. The passage in the HG totals under an inch (4◊0.25), the water jacket opening at the intake is something like 1.5◊2" for a total of seven inchs

This is worth doing just to be certain it wasn't residual water in the exhaust. However if it didn't clear up and got worse over the run time it's not likely that simple.. As a benefit it will point out other leaks you might of overlooked (besides the internal one and the egr coolant passage.).
i was referring to the passages going in and out of the lower intake for the coolant. If there was a compromise in the gasket-would I really start sucking in that much coolant into the intel?

Also-i drained the oil today. Completely clean as itís two days old and NO coolant was mixed in. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Iím thinking it could be that flimsy ITM gasket thatís between the lower intake mani and the head. Thoughts?
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:58 PM   #20
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When it first failed, the oil was filled with coolant. That was the dead give away that the head gasket had failed.
FWIW, on a 22R & RE that is also a sign that the timing chain has worn through the cover.

Last edited by L5wolvesf; 02-13-2018 at 07:01 PM.
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