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Misfire issue, need help

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Old Oct 10, 2018 | 03:46 PM
  #21  
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Another quick update.
Ran out of options and brought it to a dealership that I work at, that is a toyota dealership.
Payed $65 and got these results

FROM THE TECH:
Someone has destroyed this vehicle. EGR has been removed and plugged off.
Many vaccum lines have been plugged off
PCV does not work, plugged off
Vehicle runs really poor. Fuel pressure is within spec. If I pinch the return line vehicle runs better.
Codes for TPS and knock sensor.
So many things wrong with this vehicle
Maybe we should start with fuel filter in case volume is low
Could also be fuel damper
We would need to remove intake plenum to inspect/replace
A good start would be knock sensor with new wire, Fuel filter, fuel dampner, intake boot, and pcv stuff.
---------------------------------------------------------

So with all of that being said. Its running rich, you can smell fuel like crazy, and its blowing a lot of smoke. SO should I start with the fuel filter and dampner and see if that fixes it?
Also, for some reason the knock sensor is still coming up as a code, even tho its been installed correctly. I'll double check that.
TPS sensor has a code and im not sure why. It only had a code after we messed with it and put it in the correct position.
Intake boot is a temp fix, and is fine for now.
With the PCV stuff is that a huge issue? Same with the EGR. Or should I start with the Fuel filter and dampner. I can't see it being the knock sensor thats making the engine flood itself, or so it seems.

Also here is a list of parts I need. Would anyone be kind enough to link me to some OEM cheap parts if possible? Thanks!

Fuel Filter
Knock Sensor
Sensor wire for knock
Air surge Gasket
Intake manifold gasket
Fuel gamper set
TPS sensor.

Thank you guys for all your help. Hopefully in the following days I can get her back on the street!
(Sorry for any misspelling or anything like that)
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Old Oct 10, 2018 | 08:11 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by NBAProfessor
Another quick update.
Ran out of options and brought it to a dealership that I work at, that is a toyota dealership.
Payed $65 and got these results

FROM THE TECH:
Someone has destroyed this vehicle. EGR has been removed and plugged off.
Many vaccum lines have been plugged off
PCV does not work, plugged off
Vehicle runs really poor. Fuel pressure is within spec. If I pinch the return line vehicle runs better.
Codes for TPS and knock sensor.
So many things wrong with this vehicle
Maybe we should start with fuel filter in case volume is low
Could also be fuel damper
We would need to remove intake plenum to inspect/replace
A good start would be knock sensor with new wire, Fuel filter, fuel dampner, intake boot, and pcv stuff.
---------------------------------------------------------

So with all of that being said. Its running rich, you can smell fuel like crazy, and its blowing a lot of smoke. SO should I start with the fuel filter and dampner and see if that fixes it?
Also, for some reason the knock sensor is still coming up as a code, even tho its been installed correctly. I'll double check that.
TPS sensor has a code and im not sure why. It only had a code after we messed with it and put it in the correct position.
Intake boot is a temp fix, and is fine for now.
With the PCV stuff is that a huge issue? Same with the EGR. Or should I start with the Fuel filter and dampner. I can't see it being the knock sensor thats making the engine flood itself, or so it seems.

Also here is a list of parts I need. Would anyone be kind enough to link me to some OEM cheap parts if possible? Thanks!

Fuel Filter
Knock Sensor
Sensor wire for knock
Air surge Gasket
Intake manifold gasket
Fuel gamper set
TPS sensor.

Thank you guys for all your help. Hopefully in the following days I can get her back on the street!
(Sorry for any misspelling or anything like that)
Signs of running rich, clamping off the fuel return makes it run better... Those are contradicting statements!

Did you identify and address the exhaust leak? If you smell unburnt fuel and have a "continuous lean" code this is the first thing I would spend money on.

Pull the spark plugs, take clear close up photos and post them. You were asked to do this awhile back and only responded something like "they are gapped correctly"...

The pulse damper was removed on later model years, in fact it's a popular mod to remove it instead of paying for a new one. Don't put a lot of worry on this unless it's leaking fuel all over the engine bay.

You said above that you fixed the knock sensor, I kind of get the feeling you're blowing smoke up our butts and didn't pull the intake off and put it where it goes with a new wire. Just a gut feeling no offense.

Is the PCV system plugged off or is the valve plugged/inoperable. Again contradicting statements.
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Old Oct 11, 2018 | 05:30 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU
Signs of running rich, clamping off the fuel return makes it run better... Those are contradicting statements!
Sounds that way, but not quite.

NBA can smell fuel in the exhaust, but not because it's running rich. His title "explains" it: Misfire. When a cylinder "misfires," whatever fuel was in that cylinder gets dumped into the exhaust unburned. It wouldn't surprise me if NBA has a dirty injector or 2 or 3 (for instance). It doesn't put in enough fuel to fire, so there's lots of unburned fuel in the exhaust. Pinching the return hose pushes up the fuel pressure, so the "weak" cylinders get enough to start firing, but the other cylinders are now way-rich.

Originally Posted by NBAProfessor
... and brought it to a dealership that I work at, that is a toyota dealership.
Payed $65 and got these results

FROM THE TECH:
Someone has destroyed this vehicle. EGR has been removed and plugged off.
...
In my opinion, you got at least $65 of good advice right there. All the advice you're getting on this forum is (mostly) correct, but none of it will take you all the way to a completely reliable vehicle. We can't tell everything that's wrong; the best we can do is give you something to try, and go from there. How long do you want to keep that up?

Have a heart-heart with the tech. My guess, he'll tell you "If it was my truck, I wouldn't put any more effort or money into it." Bad news, but do you want to hear it now or several hundred (thousand?) dollars from now?
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Old Oct 11, 2018 | 03:45 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by scope103
Sounds that way, but not quite.

NBA can smell fuel in the exhaust, but not because it's running rich. His title "explains" it: Misfire. When a cylinder "misfires," whatever fuel was in that cylinder gets dumped into the exhaust unburned. It wouldn't surprise me if NBA has a dirty injector or 2 or 3 (for instance). It doesn't put in enough fuel to fire, so there's lots of unburned fuel in the exhaust. Pinching the return hose pushes up the fuel pressure, so the "weak" cylinders get enough to start firing, but the other cylinders are now way-rich.


In my opinion, you got at least $65 of good advice right there. All the advice you're getting on this forum is (mostly) correct, but none of it will take you all the way to a completely reliable vehicle. We can't tell everything that's wrong; the best we can do is give you something to try, and go from there. How long do you want to keep that up?

Have a heart-heart with the tech. My guess, he'll tell you "If it was my truck, I wouldn't put any more effort or money into it." Bad news, but do you want to hear it now or several hundred (thousand?) dollars from now?
I would love to just get rid of it and call it good. But I put too much money into it now, and nobody gonna wanna buy it for the price I put the money into it. At this point I might as well just fix it, as its nothing too serious as far as I know. I work with the tech so if I have any questions I just ask him. But I just wanted a second opinion on things. So thanks for your reply.

Also about my spark plug gap. It was gapped correctly. We double checked it. Also for the knock sensor we did take it off and mount it where its suppose to be. Talked to the tech today and he said the reason why its not showing up is because you didn't replace the wire, and thats the number one rule, he said.
So i'm probably gonna do the fuel filter, fuel damper as those are the quick and easy fix IF thats the issue.
Then knock sensor as its just the wire, the knock sensor looks brand new (Check photos). (Even tho anything can go out in a heartbeat, I feel like its the wire, as you can see the wire is done pretty much)
PCV stuff
and any vacum lines that are plugged off, to unplug them

Hopefully this stuff will fix the misfire. What do you guys think? Or should I do other stuff
And thank you for letting me know about possibly dirty injectors. I'll check into that too!
Thanks!
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Old Oct 11, 2018 | 03:49 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU
Signs of running rich, clamping off the fuel return makes it run better... Those are contradicting statements!

Did you identify and address the exhaust leak? If you smell unburnt fuel and have a "continuous lean" code this is the first thing I would spend money on.

Pull the spark plugs, take clear close up photos and post them. You were asked to do this awhile back and only responded something like "they are gapped correctly"...

The pulse damper was removed on later model years, in fact it's a popular mod to remove it instead of paying for a new one. Don't put a lot of worry on this unless it's leaking fuel all over the engine bay.

You said above that you fixed the knock sensor, I kind of get the feeling you're blowing smoke up our butts and didn't pull the intake off and put it where it goes with a new wire. Just a gut feeling no offense.

Is the PCV system plugged off or is the valve plugged/inoperable. Again contradicting statements.
Thanks for the reply. The PCV is plugged off. We just have a hose their that goes to nothing at the moment.
While the knock sensor was mounted correctly, we didn't replace the wire. That's why its not working says the tech. So you're right there!
Will do that first actually since that wouldn't take too long and I have the part.
I would show you the pictures of the spark plugs but its still at the dealership. First chance I get i'll do it. But it is gapped correctly, tech checked it and another mechanic. At least thats what I was told.
And no, didn't identify the exaust leak. How would I go about finding this? Just take a look and see dripping? Thanks!
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Old Oct 11, 2018 | 08:11 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by NBAProfessor
Thanks for the reply. The PCV is plugged off. We just have a hose their that goes to nothing at the moment.
While the knock sensor was mounted correctly, we didn't replace the wire. That's why its not working says the tech. So you're right there!
Will do that first actually since that wouldn't take too long and I have the part.
I would show you the pictures of the spark plugs but its still at the dealership. First chance I get i'll do it. But it is gapped correctly, tech checked it and another mechanic. At least thats what I was told.
And no, didn't identify the exaust leak. How would I go about finding this? Just take a look and see dripping? Thanks!
You do know to replace that knock sensor pigtail wire, the entire plenum/intake manifold needs to come off. Again. You did this already if you installed the knock sensor correctly. Why wouldn’t a dealer have done this? You’re kind of talking in circles right now and fixing nothing. You haven’t answered simple questions with responses of specified numbers. Timing has a specified number, spark plug gap has a specified number. Earlier post you asked where to source parts when your truck is already at a Toyota dealer?? None of this makes any sense. For whatever reason, it just doesn’t seem like you’re being honest with us.
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Old Oct 15, 2018 | 04:57 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mholme


You do know to replace that knock sensor pigtail wire, the entire plenum/intake manifold needs to come off. Again. You did this already if you installed the knock sensor correctly. Why wouldn’t a dealer have done this? You’re kind of talking in circles right now and fixing nothing. You haven’t answered simple questions with responses of specified numbers. Timing has a specified number, spark plug gap has a specified number. Earlier post you asked where to source parts when your truck is already at a Toyota dealer?? None of this makes any sense. For whatever reason, it just doesn’t seem like you’re being honest with us.
Dealer wouldn't of done it unless I payed them too. Which I didn't. I don't know specific numbers because Im not the one working on it, only partially. Why would I lie? I want it fixed lmao. Last thing we did was pinch the return line and the truck ran perfectly. So we're assuming its a fuel issue at this point.
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Old Oct 15, 2018 | 07:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by NBAProfessor
Dealer wouldn't of done it unless I payed them too. Which I didn't. I don't know specific numbers because Im not the one working on it, only partially. Why would I lie? I want it fixed lmao. Last thing we did was pinch the return line and the truck ran perfectly. So we're assuming its a fuel issue at this point.
You've already paid, or will pay for the labor to get to the sensor. Why any dealer would not advise you to replace this pigtail, or for them to have advised you to replace it, and then you decline-either scenario doesn't make sense. What dealership is this? How much are you paying them per hour to work on your truck? It doesn't matter if you're personally working on it or not. If you wanted it fixed properly, you would also want to know what they did in regards to basic things like timing and spark plug gap. ASK them. It's useful information to you unless you like taking old cars to mechanics for simple things. It's a reasonable request that they can answer correctly, not the timing is set to "perfect" and the spark plugs are gapped to "correctly".

You're asking for help from people thousands of miles away from you and the vehicle. Help us help you, if you want it fixed, by answering questions that are asked of you. Or, just trust whatever dealership you say the truck is at and report back what was the issue when and if they find it. What has been done fuel related after you told us that it ran better with the return line pinched. That was days ago when you reported that.

How much of a bill is coming your way after having a 27 year old vehicle worked on at whatever Toyota charges for labor?
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Old Oct 15, 2018 | 07:19 PM
  #29  
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What he's alluding to here I think is, you payed an hourly shop rate ($75+ per hour) and shelled out for new gaskets then skimp on $10 worth of wire and that was a bad choice.
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Old Oct 16, 2018 | 03:42 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mholme
You've already paid, or will pay for the labor to get to the sensor. Why any dealer would not advise you to replace this pigtail, or for them to have advised you to replace it, and then you decline-either scenario doesn't make sense. What dealership is this? How much are you paying them per hour to work on your truck? It doesn't matter if you're personally working on it or not. If you wanted it fixed properly, you would also want to know what they did in regards to basic things like timing and spark plug gap. ASK them. It's useful information to you unless you like taking old cars to mechanics for simple things. It's a reasonable request that they can answer correctly, not the timing is set to "perfect" and the spark plugs are gapped to "correctly".

You're asking for help from people thousands of miles away from you and the vehicle. Help us help you, if you want it fixed, by answering questions that are asked of you. Or, just trust whatever dealership you say the truck is at and report back what was the issue when and if they find it. What has been done fuel related after you told us that it ran better with the return line pinched. That was days ago when you reported that.

How much of a bill is coming your way after having a 27 year old vehicle worked on at whatever Toyota charges for labor?
I went through another mechanic to do the labor. The dealership did the check up. Thats it. Apparently he said he replaced it and is still running into that issue. It was 65$ a hour at the dealership. $25 throught the guy im going through. He didn't do the gap for the spark plugs. My father did. It was 0.2 I think if I remember correctly. I don't have the truck so I couldn't tell you. Whenever I get ahold of him I'll let you know. And the dealership ONLY did a diagnostic check. Nothing else.
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Old Oct 16, 2018 | 06:31 PM
  #31  
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What they look like is more important to us than what they are gapped to, we aren't going to be able to tell the difference between 0.2 and anything else from this distance, what we might be able to tell you are things like "you might have a valve seal leaking" "you have a coolant leak" and which cylinder is at fault (you know like that "maybe" loose sparkplug wire..

PS if only paying $25, you might want to supervise them in person it gives you a chance to ask questions maybe learn some things and all sorts of other little bonuses. You don't typically get that experience at a pro shop where your not allowed anywhere near the service area!
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Old Oct 16, 2018 | 09:14 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by NBAProfessor
I went through another mechanic to do the labor. The dealership did the check up. Thats it. Apparently he said he replaced it and is still running into that issue. It was 65$ a hour at the dealership. $25 throught the guy im going through. He didn't do the gap for the spark plugs. My father did. It was 0.2 I think if I remember correctly. I don't have the truck so I couldn't tell you. Whenever I get ahold of him I'll let you know. And the dealership ONLY did a diagnostic check. Nothing else.
Your plug gap should be .032”. Check them again. Generally they come gapped to spec, but make sure they are. What brand are they? Again, these trucks, from what I have experienced, run best on OEM plugs and ignition components. Don’t think you’re doing it or yourself any favors running some “upgraded” plug. And read them if it’s still misfiring. Read them anyway.

At some point, your expenses having an old vehicle professionally diagnosed and worked on, even at $25 per hour, is going to cost you once, twice, three times the value of this vehicle. Be as transparent as you can and maybe you can save some time and money fixing it at home with input and online advice. Put your location in your signature. Who knows who might be close by willing to help you out.
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Old Oct 20, 2018 | 01:59 PM
  #33  
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Just to update everyone. @mholeme its .032 as you say. Brand is unknown. All we know at this point is when you pinch the fuel return line, the vehicle runs like brand new and the misfire stops. Anyone know why this might be? Cleaned the fuel injectors. Can't see what it might be. Thanks!
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Old Oct 20, 2018 | 02:18 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by scope103
... NBA can smell fuel in the exhaust, but not because it's running rich. His title "explains" it: Misfire. When a cylinder "misfires," whatever fuel was in that cylinder gets dumped into the exhaust unburned. It wouldn't surprise me if NBA has a dirty injector or 2 or 3 (for instance). It doesn't put in enough fuel to fire, so there's lots of unburned fuel in the exhaust. Pinching the return hose pushes up the fuel pressure, so the "weak" cylinders get enough to start firing, but the other cylinders are now way-rich....
Originally Posted by NBAProfessor
.... Anyone know why this might be? Cleaned the fuel injectors. Can't see what it might be. Thanks!
How did you "clean" the fuel injectors? A shop like Witchhunter will also test them and give you a report.

It's possible you have a bad FPR. Put on a fuel pressure gauge and find out. You'll need the banjo-schraeder fitting (in most cases). This gauge comes with the right fitting:
Amazon Amazon
(or you can buy the fitting if you already have the gauge).
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Old Oct 20, 2018 | 02:46 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by scope103
How did you "clean" the fuel injectors? A shop like Witchhunter will also test them and give you a report.

It's possible you have a bad FPR. Put on a fuel pressure gauge and find out. You'll need the banjo-schraeder fitting (in most cases). This gauge comes with the right fitting: https://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7838.../dp/B0009XQUKC (or you can buy the fitting if you already have the gauge).
A mechanic told me he cleaned them> That's the most I know about that. Whats a FPR? If it has something to do with the fuel pressure, it came out to be 44psi if I remember last time the mechanic tried it. Thanks, appreciate the reply.
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Old Oct 20, 2018 | 03:50 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by scope103
How did you "clean" the fuel injectors? A shop like Witchhunter will also test them and give you a report.

It's possible you have a bad FPR. Put on a fuel pressure gauge and find out. You'll need the banjo-schraeder fitting (in most cases). This gauge comes with the right fitting: https://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7838.../dp/B0009XQUKC (or you can buy the fitting if you already have the gauge).
fuel pressure regulator?
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