http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?ro...product_id=133 I had my doubts that you could find a really good match for the 82c thermostat in a two speed fan switch. I found folks in the UK with Land Rovers like the Intermotor 50091. The specs are M22x1.5 88-83/92-87C NO. On paper this should work well with an upper hose adapter. The bad news is you can't buy it here directly. Here is an ebay link to a Puegot version of the 50091, the specs are listed as the same. Just some food for thought. http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIATOR-FAN...-/251139709115

 

I the tstat is fully open at 82c then this is the best switch ive seen (safe temps zone) lets hunt it!!

 

working a possible 3rd gen efan,gathering info and parts!
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/3...ersion-290825/

 

i'd hardly call it pioneering since the kit has been sold aftermarket and universal for many, many years..... it just costs money.

 

All of this matters if you want a reliable, durable electric fan system that works well. If none of that matters to you, you could buy a kit with an after market fan and an adjustable probe that sticks in to the radiator fins. You aren't going to have 100 percent agreement on anything. Folks started using Taurus fan, some one tried the Villager fan. Some people were using an aftermarket fan controller, some one started using the Volvo controller. If everything was simple and easy, you wouldn't have all of these recalls by major automobile manufacturers. You can keep your cost down by looking for value. Using good oem devices that are mass produced can be a good value, like the Taurus and Villager fans, and the Volvo controller.

 

I used the Villager fan and the Volvo speed fan controller with the BMW dual thermal switch. I found the Volvo fan controller after doing a non-Toyota search on the interwebs where I found lots of threads for all sorts of hot rods using the volvo controller...seems like we were the one crowd not using it. In no way am I the first to do this mod, infact most of what I do and have done was copied from others.

The Villager/Quest fan is slightly different than the Taurus/Sable fan in the shape of the shroud, but CFM seems to be the same. Everything I have read refers that Ford uses very robust fans that have a decent life expectancy. Again, someone else figured out the shroud from the Villager/Quest was better matched to the Toyota radiator.

I am about to help my son do an efan swap on his 95' M3 using a Volvo 940 fan(still Ford) and the Volvo fan controller to delete his mechanical fan. The Volvo fan is suppose to have a lower amp inrush on start-up.

 

I was not trying to imply that you guys were the first to use a Villager fan on any vehicle other than a Villager or a Volvo controller on any vehicle other than a Volvo. Sometimes a project like this is about using the right combination of parts. I can not say with certainty what is the best fan switch to use. You can try to make a good guess, but some one needs to try it to be sure. For one thing you can't find comprehensive specs on most of these fan switches. And there is personal preference and climate involved. Another thing that could affect the operation of the switch is where it is mounted in the upper radiator hose. On my Regals, I have the switch/adapter mounted closer to the radiator than the engine. I still haven't heard any one comment on the issue of if you are running hotter in the summer time with your fan switch. There are advantages and disadvantages to the mechanical fan and the electric fan. I'm satisfied with the mechanical fan, but that is on my 22R and living in the climate that I do. It is not impossible that this mod could evolve and/or my circumstances change and that I would consider installing an electric fan. After reviewing the thread...it may have been more appropriate to say that you guys are participating in experimenting with the e-fan conversion instead of using the term "pioneering".

 

i was just being an ass.

 

No worries.

The radiator efan will kick on and off depending on the coolant temperature no matter what climate you live in. If its 30f outside, my coolant still reaches operating temp and is cooled to the temp the efan switch turns off.

Switch placement...
The toyota radiator has hot engine coolant enter at the top and cool exits the bottom. I placed my switch in the radiator fins for the reason that I want the passive radiator to do its job before the fan is needed. When I placed it in the top of the radiator the fan ran longer, much longer. This is because the hot coolant leaving the engine stops flowing when the t-stat closes and the coolant at the top of the radiator isn't circulating leaving the cooling to become slow, running the efan longer.
I tried many locations for the efan switch, and the one that seemed to be the best was about 4" from the bottom of the radiator above the outlet. I also noticed that on the BMWs the switch is located about midaway down the the tank, as the tanks are on the side and not the top and bottom.

 

Ah the internet, where some things can be misinterpreted if you don't use a smilie.

True the Volvo controller is not a new idea. There was a thread about it on nastyz28.com back in 2010 and I'm pretty sure I saw someone using it on there a year or two earlier.

 

^^^ Haha, yep nastyZ28, I couldn't remember where I saw it, kept thinking it was an s10 site of some sort.
The nice think about the Volvo controller is the packaging....separate from any other control module or sensor....meaning , it's not part of something else.

 

i did some skimming back a bit, and noticed many are opting to get at or close to the thermostat opening temps. kind of forgetting one of the ways the radiator works is to use the coolant in the radiator and hoses as a cooler fluid and the thermostat should stay open fully at operating temps, and not need use of the fan. if the thermostat is 82c/180f, then i believe normal operating temp should be something like 185-230. the appropriate temp switch ranges would be like 88-90c/190-195 stage 1 on and 102-104c/215-220f stage 2 on with the sensor in the upper radiator hose/t-stat housing/near the upper radiator and you shouldn't be chasing your tail.
remember that the stock fan is also on to build the temp above 180, and the spring sets it to neutral clutching once heat passes from the radiator to the front spring in the fan clutch and stays free-spinning till it gets too hot in the radiator.
just my 2 cents.

 

... and i would also place a diode from the switched power relay from the high fan relay output to the ign. terminal to keep it on if it's still running in high mode when you shut it off. it would be similar to most factory setups.

 

thats the kind of info im willing to hear,when does the stat stays opens to the select the correct switch.

 

is this a question?

 

^^^No it doesn't.

At operating temperature the t-stat is closed, when the engine temp rises above the t-stat threshold it then opens to mix cooler coolant to maintain operating temperature

The job of the thermostat is to keep the engine at a constant operating temperature regardless of the outside temperature. The t-stat accomplishes this by opening (to let cooler coolant in from the rad) and closing (keeping warmer coolant in the block) to either keep the 180°F(+/-) operating temperature consistent to produce the best fuel burn results. The engine at idle cannot maintain operating temperatures without a shot of cooler coolant. the coolant temperature will always be different due to the ambient temperature.

At idle on a 85°F day, my truck cycles the fan every minute...one minute on and one minute off once the t-stat opens when it reaches operating temperatures. My first switch turns the low speed fan on at 176°F, if that doesn't cool it the Hi-speed fan kicks on at 190°F.

I have also experimented with a thermometer to watch what happens during the t-stat cycle. There is a 100°F difference between the top of the radiator and the bottom at idle ambient temp of 85°F.

 

the thermostat closes to try and keep the temp above 180. your fan turns on and off basically because the thermostat is opening and closing. the way your fan works is abnormal, and your temp cooler than the engine was designed to run. if you like it your way, that's fine, but still not as intended.

 

Well shoot man, I just noticed you mentioned that same site a couple of pages back lol
chevelles.net, chevytalk.org, camaros.net, nastyz28.com, stevesnovasite.com, maliburacing.com, gbody.org, thirdgen.org, turbobuick.com, dragraceresults/dragtalk = http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x, yellowbullet.com I guess I get around a little...

 

AKHeathen please stop posting in this thread...either you are misinformed or you are not articulating accurate information.


Yes, but only during warm up, after that it maintains the 180F temperature by opening to let cooler fluid enter the block to maintain operating temperature. Rev your engine a few times and tell me if the thermostat is trying to keep the heat in or let the heat out. Actually, the thermostat opens when the temperature of the coolant in the t-stat reaches 180°f, but the rest of the engine is actually seeing temps closer to 200°f because the coolant isn't circulating until the t-stat opens. I have used a digital IR type thermometer to see this first hand when testing my system.

The fan turns on because the passive radiator alone cannot dissipate the heat of the 180f+ coolant at ambient temperature with no air moving. I have driven around in the winter without a fan at all without issue, mind you I didn't sit in traffic and I have an oversized radiator. Not recommended but possible because the radiator is getting enough cold air to dissipate the heat from the coolant.

If this were true how would our vehicles maintain proper operating temperature in the winter months while driving on the highway with a mechanical fan always moving air across the radiator and in many cases much colder then the engine operating temperature?

Lastly, try to keep your radiator at the operating temperature of the engine as you have described, I'd like to see how you are going to do that in an Alaskan winter.

 

i think you are probably misreading what i am saying. why should i stop posting simply because you simply do not agree. a lot of my info comes strait from manufacturers, basic "advanced" classes, experience, some of the best mechanics you'll ever meet, and of course, extensive research over the years...... but this shouldn't be a pissing match



kind of saying the same thing i already did, describing the warm-up. keep in mind that it's all in reference to normal operating in warmer climates, not freezing climates, and in relation to the fan temperature. i did not see the need to go into winter conditions, but yes, of course the thermostat is going to close when it's cold enough that it can passively dissipate, or temperature differential x thermal transfer rate is great enough. then, yes it goes back into tapping the radiator momentarily. this is one reason we use bras and winter fronts.

"hotspots" yes, all engines have hot spots in heat source and low-flow areas. where do you think the heat comes from? the cylinder walls and oil (sometimes exhaust heat recovery or coolers, but it does pretty much equal out, or the engine is likely to be damaged somewhere. sometimes the engineers get it wrong for a couple years, and this is why you will often see intake or head gaskets with smaller orifaces in metal plates where the stock one was free-flowing.... but you can't rely as much on external readings as more than a guideline, taken into account the immediate thermal environment and factors surrounding the test point. ir block readig is a type of way to locate dead cylinders on a multi-passage up/down flow jacket engine, but that would only be like an inboard marine, where you can't get to the exhaust ports good enough, or to look for restrictions in the cooling system.

...... now i've been trying to think of a polite way to address the not flowing comment..... and can only assume you meant it's not circulating the radiator, which is obvious, and even though your wording and first-hand account suggests otherwise.... do you know what happens when you deadhead a pump like that? the front side pressure spike could be enough to either blow a hose or gasket explosively, bend the fins over, shear the, or something on the pump shaft, or stall the engine. on top of that, a lack of coolant flow in even a -60f engine is enough to boil coolant around the cylinder jackets and in the head in a matter of minutes, much like when a water pump belt breaks, but at least that affords a small amount of convection flow. that little 5/8" or 3/4" hose near the thermostat neck: that's the heater hose. i'm being facetious, as i assume you already know that, or would look it up. there is also other auxiliary passages and ports and a the thermostat can bypass if needed. it's connected to the back side of the thermostat, and that is where the coolant circulates when the thermostat is closed. i'm sure you can appreciate the size difference in the radiator and heater systems in reguards to flow. it's one of the engine loading factors that helps to build more heat in the engine. another is the factory fan, which is why it kicks on when the engine is cold and releases to neutral when heat reaches the spring either from the radiator air or the long journey from the water pump shaft. that is why it is not free-spinning with the engine off umless the engine just shut off and it was in neutral (operating temp)


yes, that is what i'm saying.... you are using a setting basically to try to keep the thermostat closed in your setting, intentional, or not. thermostat opens, fan comes on, thermostat closes, fan shuts off: repeat. anything set near or below the thermostat temp will do it. i bet the switch you chose is designed for a 170 or 175 thermostat, not a 180. it could be that the combustion chamber does not burn even the lower octane fuel it's rated down to well enough below 180 mean, or that it is the least preferable temp that the differnt mechanical/pressure seat components mesh together or both that the temp was chosen for these engines, but the fact that it hasn't been changed, or called for a change means it's an appropriate desired operating temp range. the thermostat is meant to keep the heat in. the 2-stage thermostat is designed to keep the heat in, buffer the cold fluid in transition, then free-flow with lower differential. large differential creates convection barrier unless finely agitated with both temps already mixed and actually hold more heat at the hot spots and cool more greatly in the cooler areas creating colds spots, contributing to warpage, heat rise and greater surface compression/tension in spots. (look up convection barriers if you don't believe me) if it is cold enough, and you are usually moving in cold temps, yes, many have run without fans, especially if they shatter and none are in stock. it's somewhat common in the arctic.

short answer: they don't. the fuel gets enriched because it's not burning well, not just because the air is more dense and dry. unburned fuel and junk start to restrict the cat (thus eliminating the use of exhaust thermo chokes). this creates more cylinder exhaust stuffing and heat retention. thermostat increases engine loading, gear oils and rubber resistance increase load. fan increases load. electrical devices increase load, but fact is, these are just measures and engines do get too cold to run. some cars come with bras or winter fronts, and some have them available for sale and let you choose not to buy one and experience why you should've. #1 thing to do is cardboard in the radiator, most people that know about it, do it. some even remove the mechanical fan to keep the air from moving across the engine. another thing we do is "plug at 20" block heaters, battery heaters, katz percolators, 120v cab heaters, trans heaters, or a heated garage is often enough to get you the 15min or less you need to drive without changing anything to hold more heat.

works in the summer, or with enough load. i've seen many trucks overheat in sub-zero temps with a slipping fan, and many do fine with no fan.... you should go around to different vehicles with factory electric fans and test what temp the fan comes on vs factory thermostat temperature. you will find i am right on the money.

... and my lastly: do you know why radiator caps are pressurized? it's not to keep the fluid in. if that was the case, all you need is a cap and a hose to the "catch can"/resivior/surge tank and let it expand and contract fluid volume as the heat does. it's pressurized so it can operate in excess of 230f without boiling at 212f as it would. you can stand behind your one vehicle observations, as you indicated, but i'll stick with factory engineering and operation knowledge and many years of experience in the field.