_RaStA_RoCkEt_

Hello collective Toyota Hive-Mind;


It's been a few years since we spoke. I miss you, and thought I'd come out of 'lurker'-dom to ask a question or two.

In short (#pun), I believe that in my foolishness of wiring H.I.D. H1 bulbs into some Hella housings, I may have destroyed some factory ground, or caused a dire issue with melted wires DEEP in the dashboard, as now ALL my formerly working Auxiliary lighting anything (sans C.B. radio) ceases to work.

THE BACK-STORY

[I] I ordered a Kensun 6000K H1 HID conversion kit for my Hella Rallye 4000 housings. I installed this, AND EXTENDED THE STOCK WIRING FROM THE BALLAST (I know, I'm dumbbbbbb ...i had to 'live-and-learn' this one) , and to top it off, trusted the manufacturer in China and INSTALLED IT WITHOUT A RELAY, RUNNING "HOT" from BATTERY to SWITCH, then to BALLASTS, then lights...

...Imagine the FUN I had when I touched the "HOT" to the battery, even with the switch off.

NEAR-INSTANT Ground wire (which went to the steering column) melt, and LOTS of smoke.

I shook my head at my foolishness , and un-wired it all. I checked in the dash, and found NO damage anywhere (besides the melted ground) and called it a wasted 4 hours of wiring and pulled out my 'work.'

THE (AFTERMATH)

...I'd had a previously installed set of AUX back-up lights. Low draw L.E.D.'s, and they were wired WITH a relay, and on a completely different area of the cab. HOWEVER, I grounded the SWITCH to the lower dash frame (below the stereo mounts). It worked FINE, for a simple "back-up and turn", even last night AFTER the H.I.D. fail... BUT, on my drive home last nightthe switch itself would not illuminate, nor the lights themselves... So, I figured I'd replace the switch.

THE PROBLEM I NEED HELP WITH
Today; I replaced that AUX back-up light switch, and lo-and-behold, it did the SAME thing my ground wiring during the H.I.D. foolishness. Without even being turned ON, the "HOT" from the relay AND the switch ground wire practically melted, and started smoking. I pulled them immediately, and shook my head with sadness.

So... What do you presume is the cause of this? Did I create a short somewhere in the DASH (even though I disassembled the dash along BOTH previously failed wiring lines and found NOWHERE a ground/short would be caused by exposed wires AND made sure to touch the metal in the dash with shoes off to test if it was carrying current...

FINAL CAVEAT;
For some WEIRD reason, my C.B. radio works fine. It's grounded to the passenger-side of the cab on a dash-frame piece of metal, near the E.C.U., and has no trouble at all with heating up or anything.

I'll be happy to provide pictures to anyone who would like evidence of this. I'm real curious if any of you gents (and ladies) can help me with sorting this one...

I'm going to RE-wire the Hellas with LED bulbs, and see what happens... but I want to get my cab-grounds BACK!

HELP APPRECIATED


Love from Oakland

crawler85

even if you hooked up the lights straight to the battery without any fuses, it should not have shorted out like that unless you wired it incorrectly so that you shorted out the battery.

only the wires that were shorted should have been damaged, so what is in common with the backup lights?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

So tell me how does the Bare foot Amp Meter work ??

What kind of Current range does it read??

Buy your self a Multi Meter and get real world Numbers

Not sure how you messed up your wiring but you took full battery voltage you know the same watts that crank the starter .

But instead of the heavy battery cable you ran it through most likely 14 Gauge wire no small wonder it melted .

Make sure the local Fire Department knows your address.

arlindsay1992

iTrader: (8)

You ever notice how the first step in any procedure of the service manual is disconnect the battery? That's so you don't bump a wire and short anything or weld a wrench to the battery terminals. Seems like if you are doing electrical work then you'd benefit from disconnecting power.

crawler85

Lol,

Jeez fellas, he already admitted his mistakes. Let's not beat him while he's down. He is a fellow 4runner owner, after all.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Throw a blanket over him and do it right !!

slow-mo

Without knowing your knowledge of electronics, I'd say you have your relay wired incorrectly or the relay is defective.

You'll need to get out your digital multi meter (DVOM/DMM) and do some diagnostics on the circuit.

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

Ok!

Thanks all!

Wyoming is right... I did make some serious errors here not disconnecting the battery terminals. I kNoW... I KnOw.... *smh*

Here's the GOOD news;
I'd just taken a 1000mi +/- trip, through the desert, with no problems. I presume that the issue was simply with that circuit (e.g. the H.I.D. lights) and not a grounding-out of many/any other wires... as It would have killed my battery, I presume.


Here's the "Interesting" news;
I'm going to scrap the whole H.I.D. idea, and re-replace the bulbs themselves with low-draw L.E.D. bulbs in a Halogen housing, and wire it WITH a relay (whereas, previously I'd not used one). I'll keep you all apprised on this as it goes.

Lastly,
Crawler85's post asks "what's in common"... which would have ONLY been the approximate ground location of the wire. I'd used the steering column as my ground location for the H.I.D. switch, and used the center dash support metal as my ground for the Back-up light switch.

I suppose I'll have to use my Digital Multimeter (which I'll be teaching myself to use) to do as Slow-Mo says!

WILL ADVISE.

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

UPDATES:

Sorry for the late posting, since I couldn't work until "summer" began.

Anyhow, COMPLETELY scrapped the H.I.D. idea for the Hella lights, and decided to re-wire the entire system, using H1 LED bulbs, using 10awg for all power + grounds.

Secondly; I'd had a set of LED backup lights which subsequently started cooking their wires after this "incident." I was getting ready for a trip around my last post, so I simply pulled the entire system out to avoid any issues during the journey.

... that said, 2 days ago, I re-wired them, presuming that the GROUND itself was the issue. Simply, my demo wiring was wired with both "hots" [switch and relay] to the battery +, and the relay and switch grounded to the battery - and chassis, respectively.

...the switch "hot" and ground started cooking again. I presumed this, and caught them before the issue went full fireworks... (4th of july isn't until monday) ... but I presume that this is an issue of wire gauge and inadequate ground.

Crawler; I wish I knew how to use a Multi-Meter. I'm going to look into that, as soon I'll be doing the CS130 1-wire alternator. This [electrical work] is definitely my next challenge, and I look forward to it!

I'll apprise as the situation changes!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

As long as the fire department knows where you live !!

Maybe a call to put them on stand by !!

We all have to learn my first electrical mishap took out two cars the garage and the house but it didn`t kill the sperm donor the only real down side!!

The fire department was able to save the foundation of the house.

RAD4Runner

May I suggest that you remove all modification to your vehicle, and stop messing with it until you can remove "presumption" from the way you do your work? Take it to someone who is sure of what he is doing.


+1 LOL!

Charchee

I know what it all has in common.

Just take a break from it for a while and think about the circuit you're building. Maybe look at a diagram of the relay you're using. What I do when I'm wiring up a pretty complex circuit is to wire up everything to a test battery or even the vehicle battery without completely installing everything. I then use a meter to make sure my current is all going where I want it to go. Then I hook up whatever it is I'm working on to make sure it all works before I start running wires through the firewall.

You said that at least one of your sets of lights is a low draw led set. Try hooking those up without the relay. You don't have to leave it this way but the lights should work ok wired straight through the switch. You might even wire you in a fuse just big enough for the amperage you are going to need. If you blow the fuse or melt another wire, then you're problem is likely in your wiring of the switch. If they work fine, maybe you wired your relay incorrectly.

You really just need to get you a $20 multi meter and watch some youtube videos on how it works. It will pay for itself a thousand times over. I rank my meter up there in the category with screwdrivers and a crescent wrench as tools I don't leave home without.

If you could draw out your circuit on a piece of paper and post us a picture of it, including pin positions on the switch and relay along with any information available on the relay, we could probably get your issue figured out in just a second.

In the mean time, unhook all of that mess before you end up melting your dash or worse.

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

Salt.

I understand the core of your message, sure. I know that it's important to know precisely what you're doing when you can. However, much like the parable about the farmer and the airplane, I go forth learning as I go... as did you, with say... walking.

(In short: a farmer wakes up to a perfectly untouched plane sitting in his field. At first, I'm sure he's confused and perhaps scared... but soon he conquers these fears, and gets closer and closer, conducting empirical tests along the way to be more and more sure of his new lawn ornament. Over time, he becomes more and more confident, and eventually climbs on, and then into it... perhaps accidentally starting the engine. I'm sure he'd panic, and I'm sure he'd regain some of that fear and trepidation, but after a little while... with careful reasoning and optimism, he'd likely learn to taxi it around... maybe even risk taking it off!)

My point is: Sure, I'm NOT the best electrician, and I'm NOT the best mechanic. I don't presume to be. I AM, however, curious.. willing to learn from my mistakes, and keep going when it seems dark or difficult. You won't deter me. Any risk I assume is my own, and sure... thanks for the advice.

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

I did just that! I've a very talented mechanical engineer friend who came over and showed me how to use the Multi Meter. I'm happy to report that the charging system (the first thing i learned to test) is working great! haha... It'll come in handy when I start re-wiring this truck.

Will do. Likely this week. I work during the week, so my weekends are when / how I get time to tinker. I'll post it here.

TOTALLY DID THAT IMMEDIATELY. ...guess I never mentioned it, but yea... completely pulled out all my AUX wiring for anything that went "haywire."
As of now, the C/B still works, and shows no issues. I added in-line fuses in it's power, and it's been doing just fine.

RAD4Runner

Awesome. Good to know that. Yes, best to learn hands-on with guidance/presence of an expert.

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

I agree... here goes:



And After:



...all in all, I think I sent a MASSIVE overload to the ground in my dash... anything that was attached there also died. Here's some diagrams of that stuff:

My Back-Up 27W L.E.D. lights. (The switch died... then, when I replaced the switch, the SWITCH GROUND melted... along with the SWITCH (+) to battery. I uninstalled the ENTIRE set up, patched the insulation, and then connected the entire system JUST using battery (+) and (-), and it still began to re-melt the same wires immediately.


My interior L.E.D. lights (X4) blue under-dash 'mood' lights so I can find 'ish when I drop it. INSTANT death post H.I.D. trouble, haven't been able to work with it since...



So... UPDATES ON CONDITION OF TRUCK:

As of Oct. 16-17, the rain has been serious in the Bay Area. And, of course, it was time to go 4wd...
...I went out to my usual spot, ended up spending 4hrs helping some goons who got their 9K lb Duramax/Cummins trucks stuck on some tight trails with some tree 'removal' with my winch, and got 10" of rain in 24hrs.

During Trip STRANGE-SYMPTOM #1:
My usually trusty M8000 decided to not spool in adequately when used to attempt to extract a stump from the ground. It "Popped", and slackened, and "Popped" and slackened. I thought this was bolts on the ARB bumper popping, but it wasn't... I simply stopped using it.

During Trip STRANGE-SYMPTOM #2:
MASSIVE hesitation / sluggish below 3K rpm, and when above, power kicked in like a Donkey's hind leg! This lasted about... 1-2hrs.

I have began to research this, and noticed that others have reported that they incorrectly diagnosed rain-time engine hesitation / lack-of-power as everything from T.P.S., A.F.M., Distributor Cap moisture, faulty E.C.M. waterproofing, and more.... but, all I knew, was that this was the first time it'd ever done that. I ran it hard from the Mtn's back to the bay, and it drove 100% normally the rest of the way.

..perhaps this one merits a different thread? Opinions on possible connection to the original "short" / "wire-melt" fiasco?

So, after leaving the truck in a garage for 2-3 days, I took it to get groceries... and all was well.

...and now, as of today (10/23)... the truck doesn't start. It started out as sporadic "not cranking" on a single key turn +/- 2-3 months ago, and the almost 'bad starter'-like "Tick-Tick" when you turn the key, but would ALWAYS fire on the second time... now, it wouldn't start at all. Not after 10 tries. All interior electronics work normally, and SR5 voltmeter read at normal level. DMM checked battery at 10.4 immediately after, and it had risen to 11.3 10-15mins later...

Needed to leave, but before I got a ride and gave up, I jiggled the battery-to-block ground. The truck "tick-tick"'d again, but then cranked, but EXTREMELY SLOWLY. Then, immediately after, ALL the interior lights kept blinking/pulsing, as did the buzzer, even after I pulled the key from the ignition. I'm talking Dash / Dome / Center Console... all that.

...I gave up, and pulled the battery completely out of the truck.


Any thoughts?

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

...is it wrong to think that I cooked something inside the main engine/cab harness, or perhaps messed the E.C.U. up seriously?

OR, (as I currently suspect) that somewhere there is a naked wire, exposed during my H.I.D. dumb-ness that's slowly adding resistance to the cab/chassis/frame... and therein making my starter circuit / grounds in-cab / etc. all messed up and increasingly so?

...I know 22R engines can develop Electrolysis on the head. I DO NOT want for this to happen, and am unsure if such things could cause it.

_RaStA_RoCkEt_

More Updates:

Pulled the battery OUT last night, and let it sit... tested today before install at 13.1, then inserted, and IMMEDIATELY dropped to 11.3.
...again, engine wouldn't turn. Heard starter solenoid "click" and a noise I can only describe as "an electrical whurring" which decreased in volume and pitch dependent on how long i kept key turned. Still immobilized.

Got the D.M.M. out and started testing for "Parasitic Draw" on any circuit...
(Using a DMM with 10A setting, disconnected the NEGATIVE lead to battery, and began pulling fuses to find affected circuit)

OBSERVATIONS:
1) Immediately upon connection, my C.B. P/A horn 'clicked'. (as if being cued up)
2) Immediately upon connection, the D.M.M. read "-0.07"...

3) Upon disconnection of C.B. Radio circuit (yes, my own stupid circuit), the D.M.M. read "-0.01"


HYPOTHESIS:
1) My C.B. Radio Circuit is parasitically drawing power.
2) My C.B. radio ground, which is next to the E.C.M. in passenger foot well, may be trouble.

THOUGHTS/ADVICE-TO-SELF:
- Next step could be / should be opening up the INTERIOR fuse box, and seeing what/if there's parasitic draw there as well.
- I could/should likely test the stereo amplifier circuit I installed.
- I could/should test the M8000 winch circuit... except it doesn't have a fuse I could pull... so, I don't know how to do that.

Any further advice/insight is always appreciated!
(It was high time I learned something about the electrical workings of a car.)

old87yota

I am not an electrical expert but I would like to confirm some things.

In your drawings, it appears that the positive wire from the battery goes to the switch and a ground wire comes off of the switch. What is the ground wire for? Does the switch have an indicator light? Are you using the factory switch?

It APPEARS that the positive wire is connected to the switch and the negative wire comes off of the switch. IF there is no indicator light there should not be a ground wire connected to the switch. That would cause a dead short.

I don't know what your actual wiring looks like so I just want to confirm how you had things wired.

RAD4Runner will probably chime in with your most current issue since he seems to be the electrical guru around here.

Charchee

An instant drop of 2V when you hook up your battery means you have a major pull on your electrical system or your battery has an issue with it internally. Here's an easy one. Remove the battery and charge it up over night. Take it up to a parts house and have it load tested. If it fails replace it and see what happens. If you get similar drain without anything running start following all of your large battery cables and see if one of them is rubbed through. Check your winch circuit too. Those are big cables. If you are shorting one of these big cables to the body or frame you will have your battery drain issue and can even be backfeeding your grounds with voltage which will cause major resistance and resistance = heat.

You have a lot of places in your drawings where you ran wires through the firewall. Check to see if one of these wires could have rubbed through against the sheet metal where you sent it through.