I don't know why you would say this. Tap water has many minerals in it that would accumulate over time in the electrolyser and your combustion chamber, causing premature failure. stick with distilled water. And also, catalyst = something that won't break down. "the catalysts may undergo several chemical transformations during the reaction, but at the conclusion of the reaction, the catalyst is regenerated unchanged." If you are using distilled water, it will not create byproducts. i have no idea why you would think that.

EDIT: if you're using an 'electrolyte' it will create a byproduct. if you use KOH, which is a catalyst, it will not create a byproduct. Yes, of course you'd have to drain your electrolyser as general maintenance, but that would be something like every oil change kind of maintenance. Another bonus of KOH is that it makes the distilled water freeze resistant.

Neither does gasoline or diesel or any other combustion engine in that matter~!
It is more efficient because it only contains 2 basic elements.
Any engine uses an alternator. This already happens to every engine so why hold it against this idea?!
The electricity first comes from the battery. once the engine starts to run, energy is created from the turning of the crankshaft which in part drives the alternator to recharge the battery and keep the ignition system and electrical system powered.
Calculations will be different for almost every engine, even if they are the same make and model.
If you make a conversion for $1,000 and 6 months of your life, in your spare time, it will take time to break even with the amount of gas you're saving, but eventually u will be saving money and the earth.
Who really cares about the HP and torque when you're making your engine last longer with a cleaner burning fuel that costs less to fill up with?!
Converting an engine in a vehicle you already own saves the earth instead of junking the old vehicle in a junkyard. Why bother buying a 30,000 dollar car just because it has an electric engine when you could work with what you have and learn from the experience????
running a dual alternator that powers the electrolyser while the other alternator powers the rest of the vehicle would be a good start.
Electric motors are not in abundance. Gasoline engines are.
I believe that! the government has been trying to keep it a secret for centuries. it's all about money - they don't really care about the earth.

 

You guys are confusing generators with alternators. An alternator does not always supply power when it is spinning - they require a field to be generated. Turn the field on, and the alternator supplies juice, when it's off, it doesn't.

But even if it WAS a generator, if you are using more electricity, there is more resistance on the engine. Have you ever gone to one of those science museums where they have a generator hooked up to a bicycle, and then different appliances plugged in?

 

The air conditioning adds resistance. If you disconnect the air conditioner and put a second alternator in its place, it'll be the same amount of resistance on the energy with twice the electrical power created, no?

 

The A/C has a clutch, so it freewheels when the A/C isn't on. You can certainly increase your mileage by not running the A/C. But Mythbusters showed pretty conclusively that at highway speeds you more than overcome the power draw of the compressor with aerodynamic drag from having the windows rolled down.

Two alternators will draw slightly more than 1 alternator making the same power due to the extra drag.

The point being, if this thing is taking so much power that you are exceeding the limits of the stock alternator, there is no way you are going to get that back through more efficient combustion.

 

I read somewhere that an efficient electrolyser doesn't even need more energy than a car radio uses to fracture enough hydrogen and oxygen to power a 3.0L engine. It all depends on how many plates you have in your electrolyser, how they are spaced, what frequency you are sending through the plates, and the concentration of the most efficient catalyst, KOH.

 

Seriously, if you want to be technical, I've heard you can go 400 miles on 1 gallon of water with an efficient electrolyser sending the correct amount of energy through the plates to fracture and send a respective ammount of HHO into the intake for combustion. If that seriously were the case, then you wouldnt even need your 50 pound gas tank and 15 gallons of gas to weigh you down. that alone adds more resistance than a second alternator. Lol

 

do you make and sell these? Or sell plans? You suddenly popped up earlier out of nowhere with 1 post (first post) talking about this stuff. Now you are trying to disprove people with no real scientific data to back it up.... Some of your science seems make believe and your numbers (or lack of when you generalize stuff) isn't backed up by math. I almost wonder if you personally profit off of this....

Do you have experience with this? If so post of some data and pictures... talking doesn't get very far - This thread is full of disagreement and confusion.

 

I made this account a while ago and forgot about it. I'm over in the Pirate4x4 BB. The reason i came browsing here was because of kiwipushrod, and when i saw this thread, and saw that he was posting here as well, i wanted to chip in ;-)

Lol i don't make and sell anything. I'm 21 and have been obsessed with science since i was a little kid. I have not tried installing anything like this on a vehicle yet. Everything i am talking about is something i have learned on the internet. i'm only trying to disprove people so that they can actually open their eyes and realize that this is the future.
I have spliced a 4VDC remote controlled car battery charger AC/DC adapter and wired it like renofox has, to create HHO. I inverted a filled plastic water bottle in a Tupperware container filled with water, using table salt as an electrolyte with the electrolyser, installed in it and plugged the acdc adapter in, and in less than 5 seconds, bubbles started to form. in less than 5 minutes, the bottle was almost empty and filled with gas, and the water level in the tupperware container didn't even rise. I disconnected the acdc adapter, reach in the water with the cap and capped the water bottle off, and placed the water bottle into the bonfire i had in my back yard. my friends and i went into the front yard, and in less than 10 seconds, the HUGEST bang i've heard in my life occured. I know that this can be used as fuel since it combusts. The gas looked yellow, but that was the byproduct of the NaCl.

 

There is a MAJOR difference between Hydrogen/Oxygen mix and Gasoline- Gasoline has chemical potential energy buit-in that can be released through combustion; you will never get more energy out of the Hydrogen and Oxygen you make from electrolysis than you put in in the first place. In real life you get a lot less back.

Efficiency of combustion has NOTHING to do with how many consituent elements are involved.

The point is that it doesn't work!!! You will never get more energy from burning the hydrogen and oxygen made from electrolysis than you originally put into it in the first place! In fact, you will get less back because of efficiency losses, which means you end up using more energy than you did to start with, netting a LOSS in fuel economy.

Alternators are not magic energy-creating devices. They convert mechanical work to electrical energy (and they are not 100% efficient). If you put two alternators on your vehicle's engine and pulled twice the power, your engine would have twice as much drag on it.

Well, first of all Gasoline hasn't been around for centuries, so that's impossible.

...but it doesn't matter, WATER IS NOT A SOURCE OF ENERGY. It is a byproduct of combusition, an ash if you will. You can use it for methods of storing energy you already have, as in the case of using energy to convert water to oxygen and hydrogen, but you use more energy breaking the water into its constituent elements than you ever will get back by burning the gas mixture.

No. Alternators don't magically create electricity without any resistance. They will create electricity, but the more power they are putting out, the higher their drag.

Impossible. Since you can't get more energy out of the hydrogen/oxygen mixture than you originally put in, you would have to be using a LOT more energy in the electrolysis process than your engine would be rated for. So in the case of a 3.0 rated at about 150Hp, even assuming the electrolysis is 100% efficient (which it isn't) and the engine burning the hydrogen/oxygen mixture is 100% efficient (not even close, it's probably more like 15-20%) you would have to be using an electrolysis plant capable of putting out 112 kW (112,000 W). A car radio draws what, 10 W maybe?

I've been technical from the very start, this is a hoax scam that is spreading because gasoline prices are on the rise. The fact you "heard" a car can go 400 miles on a gallon of water is a straight up lie. Impossible.

 

To make enough gas for a car engine to run on, you would need to replicate that setup to where you could pump out a liter or two of gas every second. Takes about 5 kWH of electrical energy to make a cubic meter (1000 liters) of hydrogen:
- http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...183f56756f36d9

or to run an engine an hour, that is like 18kWH (assuming 1 liter/second), which would be like 150 amps of 120VAC power (or with a 12VDC battery or alternator, that is like 1500 amps). Just a rough calculation, but it takes real energy to dissociate water into hydrogen and oxygen.

A real engine would of course take more volume of hydrogen gas than this, I used tried to use simple numbers to make the math easier. So as masacox pointed out later on, 3L engine @ 2000 RPM => 50 of incoming air/sec, using H2 and O you would see 1/2 that volume in H2 or 25L/sec, so take the above numbers and multiply by 25, so 3750 amps @ 120 volts or 37,500 amps @ 12 volts.

And yes, I have played with that sort of thing when I was in younger. In my research, I found KOH was the best thing to add to water to speed up the production of gas bubbles (nice thing having a full chemistry lab to access at school). And I was able to produce test tubes and bottles full of hydrogen and oxygen and make wonderful loud pops when a match was inserted into them. I used an HO gauge train transformer as a power supply. It is quite a simple process.

And if you want to see a setup like this built, installed and tested, check out the episode on Mythbusters where they tried this very thing.

 

everything i've learned on the internet is not raw facts, so everything you've stated contradicts my statements. It is a fact, though, that electrolysis fractures water into hydrogen and oxygen. It only took 4VDC 5 minutes for me with a very inefficient electrolyser using poor electrolytes to fracture the water in a 16 fluid ounce water bottle.

 

A 3.0L engine running at 2000 rpm will take in 50 liters/second of air (assuming volumetric flow efficiency of 1.0).

 

Of course electrolysis created Hydrogen and Oxygen (calling HHO gas is scientifically incorrect). We have all done simple electrolysis experiments for fun.

Electrolysis is not 100% efficient (numbers range from 70-90%) and you cannot get more energy out of burning the Hydrogen/Oxygen mixture than you put into it in the first place.

 

The story behind "HHO gas," also called "brown's gas" as everyone seems to call what you get from an electrolysis process on water is simple-

Some guy was playing around with a high power radio frequency heating machine and used it on a glass of water. The RF machine acted as an electrolysis machine on the water, splitting it into Hydrogen and Oxygen and burning it. The guy though he had made a giant scientific discovery. He patened it and using some scientific doublespeak and hoax mumbo jumbo claimed he had discovered a "new phase of water" which would readily burn and put all of the oil companies out of business. This "new phase of water" became known as HHO gas.

Come to find out, more than 30 years later (this happened in the 70's) it was all B.S. He was just splitting the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen and the mixture was burning. No magic, just science. I wonder how much power that RF machine was using just create a little candle flame of burning hydrogen and oxygen?

 

Hey Erick,

Good to hear from You, over here buddy!

Welcome (back) to Yotatech!

You have found one of the most controversial threads on the site. Of which I'm pretty much staying out of,..... but just when they thought they had You on the ropes,...You came back, with that Post..Go man Go!

Thanks, Kiwi

 

THank you, too!

There is NO denial that 99% of the data on the internet is a hoax. People will do anything to make money.
how many liters of hydrogen can you get from 1 gallon of water?

 

Go onto youtube and do some video research. very intriguing. Sir Hoax makes some good videos

 

Alright. Heres a farfetched idea. I expect everyone to laugh. People are making biodiesel at their house. Why can't we make HHO at our house? We could store it and then transfer it into our vehicles and burn it with a propane mixer, no? I'm sure it would be very dangerous but very fun!

 

Hey Guys,

I make Bio-Diesel at home, but I draw the line @ HHO,.....Talk about an Accelerant, Some ones gonna get Hurt!


Thanks, Kiwi

 

You can make an electrolyser to collect hydrogen and oxygen separately because hydrogen fractures on one charge and oxygen fractures on the other. I forget if the anode disassociates the hydrogen or the oxygen. If you could collect H2 and store it under PSI, with an efficient, durable system, you could fuel up on it every day when you get home if your car was set up with a hydrogen tank, right?