40alpha

Hi All,

I have '95 runner 4WD 3L automatic @ 150XXX

I am having an issue with accelerating and wondering if it is related to my EGR problem (error 71), what ya'll think. When cruising at about 55mph and driving uphill I am having troubles accelerating/maintaining speed (this is a huge ass hill by the way - Floyd Hill in Colorado for anyone who knows). To combat this I need to stand on my gas pedal to drop into a lower gear to maintain my speed at ~55mph @ 4000RPM. I also struggle accelerating when at speeds of 70+ (on a close to flat road). Also it is near impossible to go from 0 to 60 on a hill... i cap off at about 50mph until the slope is more gradual (we are talking another huge ass hill here too).

Does this sound like an EGR related issue?

I do not think it is a compression issue, it starts up fine with heat (100+ degrees). Let me know if you want more info.

One last question, has anyone replaced their EGR system? I just had a quote for ~$700, I am having troubles believing it is that much considering the labor couldn't be too heavy for a part that sits right on top of the engine compartment.

Thanks

Slowey23

not sure about the egr system as that hasnt gone wrong on mine but you have the engine nicknamed the 3.slow so I would just accept what you have, mine struggles to get to 100kph (60mph) and it wont hold any speed at the sign of a hill

Sturmcrow

FWIW, my truck had an EGR problem when I bought it. After going through the diagnostic procedure and tearing my hair out over it, I found that it was just a clogged hard line. 10 seconds with a tiny drill bit and my problem was gone. It may be worth your while to check if you can blow through all of the lines after disconnecting both ends of the vacuum tubes.

snobdds

Your at roughly 6,000 feet going up floyd hill which is pretty steep. You have a 3.0 with an auto...It's going to be slow.

An EGR that is not functioning means no exhaust gas is passing through back into the intake. You may have some pre-detonation which makes the motor ping and it runs a little hotter. It has no effect on the power...If it did you would not see everyone blocking off their EGR if they have no smog laws.

It would be pure speculation, based upon your description, for any type of reasons of why you lack power. Have you done a tune up lately?

40alpha

Okay I did have a feeling it was just the way the she drove but I had to double check. I did have tune up less than 10,000 miles ago so I'm all good there.

Another weird thing about the egr is that I had an emissions test the other day and passed no problem then 2 days later my check engine came on with the egr code.... Ill have to start troubleshooting before replacing it because it sounds like these don't go all that often.

scope103

You're not going to "replace [your] EGR system." There are a lot of parts to that system (the throttle body, for instance) and most of them are probably fine.

Code 71 says that the injected exhaust stream doesn't seem hot enough, so maybe it's not working somewhere? So first, check the temperature sensor -- it's trivial to do. http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...00egrgaste.pdf Then work your way through the other diagnostics to assure yourself that the EGR valve is opening at the correct times.

One thing that surprised me is the amount of "gunk" that accumulated inside the plenum (upper intake manifold). Enough will block the tube that injects the exhaust; no flow, temp stays low, throws code 71. More importantly, gunk in the plenum also restricts induction flow, and what else could that cause? Loss of power.

I'd recommend disconnecting just enough to let you pull the tube out of the plenum. The tube is about 6mm smaller than the hole; if you have trouble pulling it out there's your answer! This is easy to do; as you said it's easily accessible on the top of the engine.

40alpha

Thank you very much, I will do this. Im sure I can do a quick google search too to see if there are any other write ups on egr troubleshooting so I will check it all out.

Thanks again everyone.

jalopytech

I just bought yet another Toy a 90 4runner with a 3.0 / auto. The pervious owner spent a small fortune trying to fix and gave up selling for less than he paid for a new engine, not a rebuild. less than 200 miles on all the new stuff. I've found small issues that helped but point it at a hill and it wants to turn around. I have several 22s and Re's and am thinking about going back to a 4 banger. I'm not reading anything good about these engines!!!!

scope103

Then read it here: the 3.0 is a great engine. If you're having trouble climbing hills, something is wrong with your truck. What did the prior owner tell you? "It needs to be fixed."

jalopytech

My only indication of a problem(s) that gives me hope is the way it acts while in cruise there is erratic behavior when we see a hill, I too live on a long 10% grade /4500' and my story is the same as the original post. I live in a non emission county so tinkering is an option and patience I've mastered. The engine sounds good, revs good and behaves well in city driving and flatland. Previous owner had engine CAT/Exhaust, cooling system replaced and was/is not a mechanic in any way. He just refused to spend any more $s on it. Whomever did his work left the appearance of professionalism. I'm looking at each and every system, tinkering with what I can and ignoring what I can't for the time being. My gut tells me the original problem still lies before my eyes. My problem is that I usually give up and go extreme, then sell it and start over with another. I drove my neighbors 3L Nissan and it screams, he's never touched it. I have noticed that when shorting the diagnostic connector for timing check there is no difference in timing.

bone collector

the egr has a LONG pipe inside the upper intake that gets very very filthy over time. I suggest you take it out and clean it thoroughly. and btw the 3.0 can be very fast... I have had mine over 100 mph, but since you are living at altitude and have an auto tranny it wont win too many races

jalopytech

Thanx, for the input bone collector. I'll give it a look. it appears to have a new EGR on it, I would hope that whomever did the work gave it a peekaboo but you never know.

bone collector

my truck ran better after I deleted the egr/pair valves. I only deleted my egr once I was throwing a code like you are. something to look into and make your own choice.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...eaning-259045/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...emoval-202562/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...l-mods-137507/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...age-x2-264979/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...k-3vze-187741/
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-buchanan/93fsm/
here is your homework for the night.. lol

jalopytech

Bone Collector I was curios so I pulled the EGR tube and it was spotless, whomever did the install was thorough. My take on EGR's, PAIR's and the like, regardless of make, model or color is they are a sham and always have been. Sucking/blowing hot exhaust straight out of the manifold and sometimes mixing with a little fresh air, then sending it into the cool atomized fuel in the intake to make federal regulators believe the engines are somehow burning cleaner gripes my ass and never mind California's emission nonsense which goes along with the old air pump fiasco, if one were to pump enough fresh air into the exhaust there would be no emissions at all or so they would believe.
Thanx...

jalopytech

Prior owner was sick of spending $$$ to have someone else try to fix it, for his son and that's why he sold it. Sea level may make a difference along with the denser air, hopefully your not running it in low range on those big Frisco hills but I'm 4500' 10% grade / 110 ambient hot thin air and trying to go the speed limit, my latest attempt of putting LT235's on it failed, thinking the new Michelin 31's that were on it may be to much for the 4flogger. I can run circles around this thing with either my 22 or 22RE. The only reason I bought this was it has been garage kept and in immaculate condition for a 90 and only $2K. He had put under 200 miles on a lot of money trying to make it go. But you are right "It needs to be fixed" or [sold to a flatlander].

scope103

Altitude may be an issue, but I spend plenty of time above 6,000' (why else have 4wd?). And I'm certainly not using 4-low for anything on pavement! Of course, I have a light foot; maybe we have different expectations.

j2the-e

This is an indication of a faulty/misadjusted TPS- No Idle signal. If someone set the timing like this, it could be retarded, causing a major lack of power. Where is the distributor hold down bolt? Center of the slot or maxed out to one side?

scope103

Indication perhaps, but not diagnostic. MudHippy and I don't get a perceptible difference (very different years). (I know my TPS is on the money, as I have an A340H, which diagnoses the TPS for me!)

The first thing I would check is whether the SST (paper clip) is seated properly. Just look into the cab to see that the CEL is flashing.

RJR

I think the OP's expectations may be a bit high for this vehicle and engine. I'm very familiar with Floyd Hill on I-70 west of Denver. It's at about 7000 feet, and about 7% grade. If we apply some physics, we can see what the possibilities might be.
- Truck weighs 4100 lbs
- Engine rated at 150 HP at sea level at 4800 rpm.

7000 feet robs you of around 23% of the power, bringing us down to 115 HP max at 4800 rpm. The 3.0 engine has a pretty flat torque curve, which means developed horsepower is directly proportional to rpm. So, if OP is running in 4th gear at 60mph for example, the engine is turning about 3000 rpm. At that speed and altitude, the engine can only develop 115x3000/4800 = 72 HP.

Now, how much do we need to get up the hill? Moving 4100 lbs uphill at 60mph on a 7% slope requires about 46 HP. Overcoming wind resistance and rolling friction on a 4Runner takes roughly another 25HP at 60mph, making a total requirement of 71 HP. So, you can see we're using up ALL of our available horsepower, leaving nothing for acceleration. And that's assuming the engine is running as well as the brand new one Toyota used to get the 150 HP number in the first place. So my guess is the OP is getting about what he should expect on that hill.

The key to get performance out of these little engines, as I've posted before, is keeping the RPM's up. The 3.0 will run at 4000-4500 happily for hours going uphill. It's a small engine with small pistons and small rods, crankshaft, etc., and high rpms don't hurt it at all. If the OP downshifts and ups the RPMS to 4000, he picks up another 24 HP, which will make a huge difference as he heads up Floyd Hill.

Bottom line - gear down and keep that little mill spinning. That's how it was designed to run.