aviator

one poster asked about LED H4s fitting a stock harness plug... should be no issue H4 is H4.
HID is another matter because of the need for a ballast.
in my 87 I ran Bosch ecodes with 100/120 bulbs and the out put was amazing.
got the bosches in my 94 but only running 55/60s now... going to get my self some higher w bulbs when I can find them again... powers that be got all crazy a few yrs ago and banned the things and now they are very hard to find.

RAD4Runner

Agree about upgrading wiring. Stock wiring is crap. You have load current for bulbs running from battery in engine compartment, to fuse -relay block, through bulbs, back to cabin (dash), to dimmer-combo switch, back to engine compartment, to fender ground (here). That's a LOOOONG path on thin wires! It also beats up the dimmer-combo switch contacts. On the brighter side, it proves that Toyota parts are built tough; the switches are able to withstand that abuse.



I'll upgrade/modify so dimmer/combo will only control relays-not carry bulb current, relay will carry load current and current-carrying wires will only run between battery, fuse block, through bulbs and back to fender ground.

About running high beams while keeping lows on... Does anybody have experience with this? On after-market H4 housing? Did housing put up with resulting higher temps?

rokblok

iTrader: (1)

I put Hella E-codes in my 84. Did the relays/harness upgrade with Hella 110/80 bulbs. Outstanding light output and I never get flashed for seemingly having high beams on due to excellent horizontal cut offs. Sign illumination is great. Deer alert is even better....

I got mine from Rallylights.com as well. Highly recommend!

Hilux4Life

Damn y'all know way more about electrical wiring than I do. All I know is the lights are as bright as hell and I have NEVER had one single issue with them. However, I will be switching to the LEDs here soon. At that point I won't have one single light on my truck that is not an led.

thebeeler

They are still easy to find, you can order them here.
http://www.rallylights.com/Hella_H4_Bulbs.aspx
Or even here:

shaeff

Yep, same projectors for the most part. If you use Autopal headlights, then yes, you have to bake the headlight in the oven for about 7 minutes, then the lenses come right off. (I actually recommend the Autopal headlights due to this fact alone, the cheap eBay special headlights have glass lenses which pose a few problems: 1: they use silicone adhesive to hold the lenses in place making it VERY difficult to remove them, and 2: the glass lenses distort the light output considerably more than the plastic lenses on the AutoPal headlights. The Malibu light covers are in no way a necessity. My truck is so beat that I didn't care to make the lights look beautiful.

All I did was cut the housings, mount the projectors, verify that they're level, epoxy from the back side, cover the projector lens, a light coat of satin black over the whole inside, seal them up, and wire them. You can't even really see the projectors mounted in there with everything coated in black.

On OEM FX35 projectors, it's well worth it to swap to a clear lens. It increases intensity a bit, and makes for a sharper cutoff. Honestly, I wouldn't bother. I'd just get these, which is exactly what I did with this current retro for my Pickup:

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/pro...roducts_id=101

Get the 2.5" lens. No need for the 3". I can't recommend TRS (The Retrofit Source) enough. They're awesome. You should also pick up some of their butyl sealing glue when you reseal the lenses, too:
http://www.theretrofitsource.com/pro...roducts_id=792

(?) I must be missing something. haha.

Yep, I did x2 headlights, but you're correct in that I completely blanked on the fact that the headlights are fused separately! Good catch! Even still, a wiring upgrade should be at the top of his list of things to do.

If I recall correctly, when I made my old relay harness for the halogen setup, I tied the two headlight grounds together, thus creating dual beams (lows stay on with highs). I ran that way for a few years with no issues. The lights did get quite hot, but it worked out well in the wintertime, it would melt all snow and ice off the lights and surrounding areas. I did not use fender ground for anything lighting related. I use battery or alternator + for all positive connections, and Battery - for all ground connections. Good connections are imperative to good output.

JohnnyCanuck

Just watched the video on the Phase 7 dual beam 5×7″ LED Headlights, very nice product imo. At the end of the video they shot one from a giant slingshot about 200 yards onto an ashphalt parking lot and it was still one piece. Price at 249 bucks/apiece is the kicker.

RAD4Runner

Thanks, Shaeff.
Same here. My "fender ground" for stock headlights is exactly at same point where battery negative terminal screws into fender.


When I do my foglights & driving lights, I'll connect them directly to alternator and put relays on left side so right side won't get too crowded.

Huckm80

" Tivoli NY, you and the OP are practically neighbors a few days a week."

"(?) I must be missing something. haha."

Shaeff, jbtvt was refering to the fact that I live in Gallatin, NY when I'm not on the road working. Two towns away. Hit me up if you need a fellow "yotatechie" to do some wrenching or want to do some wheeling somewhere.

General responses:

I realize the E-code headlights are not legal but as Shaeff also said they have a much more concentrated beam pattern and only shine about 8 feet above the roadway on a flat surface. I am still adjusting to their sharp horizontal beam pattern and more narrow high beam pattern, but compared to the stock sealed beams they are a much needed improvement.

Is there any benefit to to using H4 LEDs over a good halogen bulb with a set of e-code lamps? Longevity? Brightness? Any cons?

Also, I know people have recommended somewhere around 12 gauge wire for headlight rewiring. What is the stock size? 16, 18 gauge? I am going to test my stock wiring and I'll report back so we'll all have an idea of average voltage drops with stock wiring and current flows.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

^^ my plan is to get the Truck lite LED'S mainly because they use about 1/4 the amps of halogen lights.

donomite49

^^ x2
i think they have advantages over even a good halogen setup, maybe the price will come down before i need to replace my lights.

shaeff

Ah, I didn't see anyplace that said you were from Gallatin. I just looked at a house kindof out that way (County Route 19 in Livingston). Right on man, and likewise, if you need/want a hand wrenching on anything let me know.

I still have to tweak my HID setup ever so slightly, but we should meet up sometime so you can see what kind of output I've got. Also, it's too bad you just bought brand new E-codes, as that's what I just removed from my Pickup.

Test the wiring via Daniel Stern's website:
http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

jbtvt

No doubt Huckm80 is occupied working on the VW again (German cars ), so to update for him, voltage drop throughout the stock circuit measured as in the link above with the engine off was ~1.5v, IIRC. Which would mean, calculated as in the same link, that the lights are only putting out 71% of their potential. On the bright side, npi, they are lasting a lot longer than they would with thicker wiring...

Those LEDs do look sharp, but at 18 watts, 42 watts less than halogens, I believe they are only saving you the equivalent of .06 HP compared to stock bulbs, so no big gains there really. More lumens with plug and play easiness, but $500, that's a tough sell. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but even though they draw less amperage, they're still subject to the same 71% output hit on the stock wiring, no?

Personally, I'd give the e codes the edge on overall value/ease (big improvement over stock for sure), although for a spring project I'm leaning towards the lumens those bi xenons put out at half the price of LEDs. To each their own though.

RAD4Runner

Not sure about calculation to get 71% loss but I'm sure voltage drop due to thin and long stock wires is about 10%.

Surely $500 is poor bang for buck.

Decent and quick bang for buck would be upgrading to H4 housing and better bulbs. This will give you brighter lights. However, stock wiring remains flawed, not electrically-sound, and inefficient. This also puts dimmer-switch combo under stress carrying those currents (akin to ST1 contacts of ignition switch having to carry 12-Amps current needed to energize starter solenoid.)

Best bang for buck, most robust, electrically-sound and proper solution would be upgrading the harness so power goes directly from battery to relay to bulbs, AND upgrading to H4 housing IF desired. I'm working on mine, just waiting for relays. Figuring out how to add series resistor and simple relay logic to use high beams at reduced power as Daytime Running Lights (DRL).

Huckm80

Let's keep the VW comments out of Yotatech unless were talking about a 3vze to 24v vr6 engine swap!

The calculation for the light output drop was taken from Daniel Sterns website (link above). We used his test for voltage drop by connecting a voltmeter from the negative on the battery to the negative low beam wire using the back-probing method with car off and lights on. We obtained a 1.03 voltage drop. Voltage drop from the positive battery terminal to positive on headlight connector was read at .32. So, total voltage drop on low beam was 1.35 volts, an 11% voltage drop (voltage drop on high beam was 1.49V, 12% ). We know that voltage drop to light output is not linear and as stated in Daniel Stern's link above, a 10% reduction in voltage results in a 33% reduction in light output.

Seems like I could be doing a lot better (current running at approximately 65% light output) with full voltage to the headlights

Why was the voltage drop on the negative side three times that of the positive side? Simple ground fix maybe?

For simplicity, I think a conversion to a quality H4 housing and good bulbs is a great upgrade. Bang for buck, is a wiring upgrade the best solution?

JohnnyCanuck

If it's simplicity, then you can't get much simpler than popping out your headlights and replacing them with the LED's, no re-wiring, no harness replacement which I'm not too comfortable with..yet. I can't belive the price of them though ($279.00 apiece on their website!), however I had the chance to see them in an '88 chevy here in town, they are bright - way brighter than my stock halogens - and I really like the lens, it appears to be built to last. Guess I'll see how much I get back on income tax's before I decide which way to go.

RAD4Runner

AMEN!

(edited terminal numbers)
Because if you trace the circuit below, wire from positive side of filament (term 3) to battery is shorter than wire from negative side (1 for Low Beam / 2 for High Beam) of filament to ground. Negative side runs from bulb back into cabin, to dash, to dimmer switch, back to engine compartment, to ground inside right side fender (here). Exactly the reason why I would reiterate that the most electrically-sound solution would be to upgrade the harness (there's a thread on harness upgrade somewhere here).

Correct. Quick and simple. But not electrically-sound because you still have significant output losses.

Correct, because this is long-term fix. After you burn out sets of H4 bubs, your upgraded harness would still be there, always sending maximum possible battery voltage to your new bulbs.

shaeff

I don't have much time to reply, as I'm in a bit of a hurry. However, if you run a good quality halogen housing upgrade with good quality bulbs, for sure that's a great bang for the buck. The light output is substantially better than stock style sealed beams. (not to mention no more taking the grille off to change bulbs!)

That being said, you still aren't using them to their fullest potential if you don't rewire. You're still 33% shy of the output you SHOULD have, even if you're getting more output with different housings.

Lastly, cost aside, I'll still take my FXr Bixenon projectors over those LED units. I'm loving every minute of them, and am kicking myself for not getting it done sooner since I had all the stuff just laying around for about a year!

jbtvt

Heresy!
I must've plugged in the wrong numbers last night. to get 71% with 1.5v of drop, because you are indeed at 68% with 1.35v.

Good idea, but if you use the high beams for running lights, even at reduced power they'll be pointing up into oncoming traffic at night unless you also do a manual switch in line, but then they wouldn't be "running" lights... Couldn't you use the regular lights - just do the relay conversion as normal, but then tap into your IGN-run someplace, run a wire to headlight area with a resistor at some point along it, and then tie it into your light+ after the relay?

Oops, substitute "switch" for "meter". Wouldn't that do it?

RAD4Runner

I'd trust your guys'/Daniel Stern's calculations on how much percent reduction in light output correspond to 10% voltage from wiring.

I'm not required DRL; I want a DRL. Therefore, I will have a manual switch to enable DRL. Couple of reasons why:

• I want to be able to turn off running lights because driving with lights on into certain places is very inconsiderate. Examples: Stargazing area where people need night vision, or entering a military base as courtesy to sentry.
• Some people disable their DRL's. They must have other reasons I don't know of, yet. IF and when those reasons apply to me, I'll be all set

My DRL logic will be:

1. Low beam ON = DRL OFF
2. High beam ON = DRL Don't Care

Yes, I already turn on my low beams when driving during the day because there are too many drivers not paying attention to their driving.
However:

• High beams get used seldom so that, more often than not, when low beam filament burns out, and bulb needs replacement, high beam filament is still good. We already used natural resources to produce that HB filament; It would be a waste not to consume it.
• I believe some vehicles use high beams (reduced power) for DRL's, there must be a good reason for it.

Re: Schematic, I would still put relay contacts in series with resistor and bulb, unless IGN-RUN Switched is from relay contacts.