camo31_10.50

ok guys..when our mechanic installed the 261 cam in my 22R..he just set everything up like you would using the marks on the oil pump and the crank pulley..and since i've heard and read in MANY different places that those marks arent always EXACT..and then even the SLIGHTEST bit can be 1 or 2 degrees in cam timing..i've come to the conclusion that my cam timing is slightly off..guys the MOST my truck can do (fresh REBUILD..new everything except pistons (they were fine)) is 3000rpm in 5th gear..which im guessing is around 65-70(my speedo cable broke about a week ago..first day i drove the new motor) and i have 31" tires..swampers that have like..30% tread..so not exactly 31" lol

i hear all these people saying awh i can pull some pretty good hills in 5th no problem..well i can pull ANY INCLINE at 65 in 5th gear..now i can drop down to 4th gear and it usually does ok..but not great like i would expect with the rebuild and cam and header..

i cant tell a difference in power from before..of course i do remember being able to hold 5th perty easily on most hills..

he lined everything up like you would anything else..lined up the mark on the cam sprocket and the mark on crank with the oil pump..got everything to TDC(or as close as you can get using the oil pump)..now i seen somewhere (some page on the net..cant find the dang thing now) where a 22r cam was installed on a truck...and the motor was at TDC BUT the little mark on the cam sprocket was not..it was counterclockwise about 3/8ths of an inch..or something similar...and the guy who wrote the article said that THAT is how is SHOULD BE..he degree'd the cam and thats what his came out to be..and he said it ran amazing..

i guess im just trying to figure out how everything should at least LOOK..lol..im just not satisfied with the power output..around town its great..and accelerating its great too..but other than that..bleh..it sucks


HELP ME GUYS!..(if you can..lol)

camo31_10.50

anybody???

abecedarian

which cam? what are the valve lash / clearance settings for this cam? ... set hot or cold? ... any mill work done to the head?

camo31_10.50

EB's 261 crawler...i believe .007 intake and .009 exhaust..o jeez i believe they were set cold..lol..but its UBER amounts of a quiet motor..no valve chatter for sure..and no mill work..

88T4R

yeah I had the sam problem the first time I built my motor. pull your valve cover and pull the distributor cap and when the motor is at top dead center look and see where the mark on the cam gear is pointing when the rotor is pointing dead on at the number one plug in the cap. If you stand back and look at the cam gear when the rotor is poiting exactly at the number 1 plug it should be just slightly to the left if not you are one tooth off. What do you have the motor igntion timing set at, when mine was one tooth off it would not run right until it was set at about 12btdc, now that I have the cam timing fixed it sits right at 5 or 6btdc and runs great, hope this helps, if anything was confusing or you don't understand just ask.

camo31_10.50

no no no no no that was a great explanation....i understand it fully..lol

but im with all the other places on saying that you cant find EXACT TDC going by the oil pump..lol..im gonna get the motor as close to TDC as possible..and see how everything sits then i'll report back!..

THANKS!!!

mine is set at 0* (no vacuum advance) and 12* (with vacuum advance)

camo31_10.50

thats at TDC..is it off a tooth????..( i watched the piston going through its movement watched it come up alll the way until its stationary(while im rotating the crank) then start going back down..then i backed it up just a hair..my crankshaft pulley is on the 0* timing mark on the oil pump )

if it is..all i do is take the chain off and rotate the cam clockwise ONE tooth right?????..

screech

I have to find the jeff mosk link for timing in a cam. very informative. my 85 used to be sluggish on the hills, going 65 on a good hill 10-14% grade I would be between 3 and 4th. The 87 turbo 4runner is not the same, nor is my auto 22re- what a turd.

screech

here it is:
http://www.well.com/~mosk/degreecam.htm

screech

another way of telling if a piston is tdc is to take the #1 spark plug out, take your dipstick put it in the spark plug hole to reach the piston. common sense will lead you the rest, I cant figure out how to describe it.

camo31_10.50

i didnt poke anything in the plug hole..but i watched the piston through the movement of TDC..its the for about 1/8th of a turn (by hand) on the crankshaft pulley)..so i just put it as close to the middle of that rotation as possible with my feel and eye..

everything seems to line up just fine..the pin that holds the gear on the camshaft is at 12 O'clock just like TED at engnbldr said it should be..and then my timing mark( the dot on the gear) is slighty left of 12 O'clock..so im guessing its set up right..or as close to right as can be with out degree'n it...

my next step to try and figure out this problem is to either get a weber (seen one on here for sale for $175 on a motor but never ran..comes with everything to mount it to a 22R)..or get my stock carb rebuilt professionally..around $100 or so..

if that helps GREAT!..if not..im prolly gonna get the LCE adjustable timing gear..and advance it a couple degrees and see what happens..

i'll not be doing the adjustable timing gear stuff myself..in fact i'll probably pay a good shop to do it..maybe i could see some good performance out of it..

yoterr

mine is exactly the same way, for the cam to be exactly 12'oclock the timing notch on the crank pully is off by like 5 degrees, and yes i need a carb to, it holds the motor back IMO

abecedarian

seems the cam is correct. the pin will be at 12 but the mark will be slighly behind, at around 11:30 or so , which is due to the slack of the chain being on the side.
However, timing is set with the vacuum lines plugged so if you're at 0 with them plugged, your timing is off.

As for finding true TDC, you need a degree wheel and indicator (it goes on the crank pulley) and a stop (it goes in the #1 spark plug hole). You turn the crank counter-clockwise, until it hits the stop and set the degree wheel to 0 (aligned with the indicator / pointer), then turn the crank clockwise until it hits the stop and note the angle on the degree wheel. True TDC would be 1/2 the distance between 0 and the angle found in the second step. So if you zeroed the degree wheel then rotated the crank clockwise and it stopped at 40 degrees, true TDC would be 20 degrees more rotation clockwise. So you'd remove the stop and rotate the crank until the degree wheel read 60.

screech

you can also get a af gage narrow band for 30 bucks at o'rileys autoparts to see your af ratio in the exhaust. 5 minute hook up.

camo31_10.50

timing was set the proper way via Chiltons manua..i might have described it wrong..but however it says to do it in there is how it was done

might look into the AF gauge from oreileys..would be nice to know if its runnin out of fuel after 3/4 throttle
runs perty good up until you get past about 3/4 throttle..then it cuts out..im thinking a jet is partially clogged maybe..it also backfires when it starts cutting out...it pops and backfires a little..which means the AF mixture is way lean..so that would go towards the theory of it runnin out of fuel..

abecedarian

I'm going to suggest you re-read setting the timing. You have a dual diaphragm advance canister no? If so, one side dials in advance under high vacuum and the other retards the timing based on vacuum as well, mostly due to throttle position. The two sides do a dance back and forth to keep timing in spec based on throttle position, engine temp and such.

As for running out of fuel, that could also be caused by the float being set improperly, the float being contaminated, the needle valve sticking on the seat or low fuel pump output volume or pressure.

AZ89LONGBED

iTrader: (3)

the 261 isn't much of a top-end cam anyways, how much (if any) was the block decked when rebuilt?

camo31_10.50

i'll check the timing again..we set it the same way we set it the other times we did the new heads

and yea i know the 261 isnt much of a top end cam..but i figured i'd atleast be able to cruise past 70..70 seems to be THE MOST it will do period..lol

88T4R

sorry forgot to check back, yeah man that pic is butter the cam timing is set perfect if that is at tdc.

camo31_10.50

yep thats TDC...thanks for the help anyways..lol at least i learned more about cam timing and such!