BEGINNER'S 22re Timing Chain Failure / replacement / head gasket replacement
Dec 13, 2013 | 03:00 PM
#222
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Central CA
noob here stripping my 88 truck I just got this last year its a 22re and am attempting a similar rebuild...been since Highschool since Ive had time to do a rebuild and that was on my old 83 volvo aka turbobrick, but ive got some time on winter break...anyways its got 180k miles on it and everything original, bought it with headgasket leaking...still ran but oil n water starting to mix and oil leaking all over ...
My ? is if i should just replace the headgasket or do a whole front end re build...Checked the timing guides and theyre in perfect condition except for the broken top hole on drivers side but very good condition holding up...no wear on sides of cover..I want to get it on the road and was just going to do the HG but Im not sure if it was leaking from the TC or somewhere...Engine is caked in the front with oil/grease...guessing somewhere leaking onto belts and sending it everywhere...
Just lookng for a lil direction...Thanks in advance!
-Jon
Ps- thanks for the excellent write up
My ? is if i should just replace the headgasket or do a whole front end re build...Checked the timing guides and theyre in perfect condition except for the broken top hole on drivers side but very good condition holding up...no wear on sides of cover..I want to get it on the road and was just going to do the HG but Im not sure if it was leaking from the TC or somewhere...Engine is caked in the front with oil/grease...guessing somewhere leaking onto belts and sending it everywhere...
Just lookng for a lil direction...Thanks in advance!
-Jon
Ps- thanks for the excellent write up
Last edited by YotiBerra; Dec 13, 2013 at 03:18 PM.
Dec 16, 2013 | 02:06 AM
#223
Thread Starter
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,009
Likes: 122
From: Northeast Pennsylvania
Hey Jon...
here's reality:
Currently, my truck is parked outside my garage, unable to be used. I firmly believe the headgasket has failed as it is pushing, what I believe, is exhaust through the coolant and likewise coolant out the exhaust. also, I have, again, water in the oil. for me, I think my timing crap is still good because I have steel guides. I have NOT even so much as taken the valve cover off to diagnose it. as far as it goes for me, I plan on pulling the motor to do a proper rebuild. when that will be, I really have no idea or time-frame. wish it already happened as we just got 10 inches of snow saturday and made it terrible on me / us getting back and forth to work in my son's 88 4runner and then a 2wd car.
enough about me.
my opinion (and please remember, my experience and expertise is limited) is you gotta figure out what is wrong 1st before you go buttoning things up and end up missing something. if you are leaking oil on the TC cover, my 1st suspect would be the area at the front of the valve cover where FIPG is placed to seal at the top of the timing cover. if you say your timing stuff is good, maybe it is. pulling the head and leaving the timing cover in place is a major pain in the stones, but can be done......and is what i am contemplating doing myself just to get my truck back on the road.
as you can see from my write-up, i am a putz. i do have the luxury of not necessarily NEEDING the truck to be running (exception being this past weekend), but rather WANTING it to be running. so I was meticulous with cleaning and sorting and reading and walking away on it etc etc etc. my plan is to pull this motor and do it the right way since right from the start (when I started it after the rebuild) I noted a oil leak from the pan because it is such a major PITA to remove and install the oil pan with the motor still in the truck.
I am not even sure how much is involved in pulling my motor because it is an AUTO. we pulled my son's 3vz, which really wasn't that terrible and I was eternally grateful we did because I was able to work on it on a stand.
good luck
here's reality:
Currently, my truck is parked outside my garage, unable to be used. I firmly believe the headgasket has failed as it is pushing, what I believe, is exhaust through the coolant and likewise coolant out the exhaust. also, I have, again, water in the oil. for me, I think my timing crap is still good because I have steel guides. I have NOT even so much as taken the valve cover off to diagnose it. as far as it goes for me, I plan on pulling the motor to do a proper rebuild. when that will be, I really have no idea or time-frame. wish it already happened as we just got 10 inches of snow saturday and made it terrible on me / us getting back and forth to work in my son's 88 4runner and then a 2wd car.
enough about me.
my opinion (and please remember, my experience and expertise is limited) is you gotta figure out what is wrong 1st before you go buttoning things up and end up missing something. if you are leaking oil on the TC cover, my 1st suspect would be the area at the front of the valve cover where FIPG is placed to seal at the top of the timing cover. if you say your timing stuff is good, maybe it is. pulling the head and leaving the timing cover in place is a major pain in the stones, but can be done......and is what i am contemplating doing myself just to get my truck back on the road.
as you can see from my write-up, i am a putz. i do have the luxury of not necessarily NEEDING the truck to be running (exception being this past weekend), but rather WANTING it to be running. so I was meticulous with cleaning and sorting and reading and walking away on it etc etc etc. my plan is to pull this motor and do it the right way since right from the start (when I started it after the rebuild) I noted a oil leak from the pan because it is such a major PITA to remove and install the oil pan with the motor still in the truck.
I am not even sure how much is involved in pulling my motor because it is an AUTO. we pulled my son's 3vz, which really wasn't that terrible and I was eternally grateful we did because I was able to work on it on a stand.
good luck
Dec 16, 2013 | 10:15 AM
#224
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Central CA
^^thanks for the reply...sorry to hear that your HG failed again after the rebuild, could the head have been warped possibly? and pulling it shouldnt be too bad if you have a engine hoist... I would pull mine but live in an apartment and am lucky to get away with even working on my truck here hah... But yeah I may just try and do the head gasket...Was only leaking a little bit from #3 cylinder but im pretty sure oil leak from that TC front seal, so maybe I can seal that up with some gasket maker...I just want to get it on the road...was running fine just suspected the valves need adjusting since didnt look like the valve cover had been off on years (rubber grommets were like rocks)...So maybe Ill just do the HG and if it works, drive it til it needs something else, then just do the whole motor with bottom end...If somethin breaks Ill fix it then...Ill keep ya posted, going to try and get head off today
Dec 27, 2013 | 11:47 AM
#225
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Central CA
hijack again- done with rebuild and engine started right up, got oil pressure, but wont rev past 1000 rpms...any ideas? tried running disconnecting AFM and TPS separately but didnt make any better...Thanks in advance! - Jon
Dec 27, 2013 | 03:47 PM
#226
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 7
From: Pleasanton, CA - SF Bay Area
did anything in the engine bay get exposed to water during rebuild?
my guess is that water is shorting some wires in the TPS or a connector giving you a false rpm reading
my guess is that water is shorting some wires in the TPS or a connector giving you a false rpm reading
Dec 27, 2013 | 03:57 PM
#227
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Central CA
^^Thanks Philbert yeah Im thinking the tps may have got wet when trying to degrease some of the bay...do they usually crap out and need to be replaced or can they be fixed
EDIT: relocated my problems as not to clog up this thread
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52152684
EDIT: relocated my problems as not to clog up this thread
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52152684
Last edited by YotiBerra; Dec 27, 2013 at 04:06 PM.
Feb 23, 2014 | 06:36 PM
#228
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 283
Likes: 2
From: N. Shore MA
Hey Jon...
here's reality:
Currently, my truck is parked outside my garage, unable to be used. I firmly believe the headgasket has failed as it is pushing, what I believe, is exhaust through the coolant and likewise coolant out the exhaust. also, I have, again, water in the oil. for me, I think my timing crap is still good because I have steel guides. I have NOT even so much as taken the valve cover off to diagnose it. as far as it goes for me, I plan on pulling the motor to do a proper rebuild. when that will be, I really have no idea or time-frame. wish it already happened as we just got 10 inches of snow saturday and made it terrible on me / us getting back and forth to work in my son's 88 4runner and then a 2wd car.
enough about me.
my opinion (and please remember, my experience and expertise is limited) is you gotta figure out what is wrong 1st before you go buttoning things up and end up missing something. if you are leaking oil on the TC cover, my 1st suspect would be the area at the front of the valve cover where FIPG is placed to seal at the top of the timing cover. if you say your timing stuff is good, maybe it is. pulling the head and leaving the timing cover in place is a major pain in the stones, but can be done......and is what i am contemplating doing myself just to get my truck back on the road.
as you can see from my write-up, i am a putz. i do have the luxury of not necessarily NEEDING the truck to be running (exception being this past weekend), but rather WANTING it to be running. so I was meticulous with cleaning and sorting and reading and walking away on it etc etc etc. my plan is to pull this motor and do it the right way since right from the start (when I started it after the rebuild) I noted a oil leak from the pan because it is such a major PITA to remove and install the oil pan with the motor still in the truck.
I am not even sure how much is involved in pulling my motor because it is an AUTO. we pulled my son's 3vz, which really wasn't that terrible and I was eternally grateful we did because I was able to work on it on a stand.
good luck
here's reality:
Currently, my truck is parked outside my garage, unable to be used. I firmly believe the headgasket has failed as it is pushing, what I believe, is exhaust through the coolant and likewise coolant out the exhaust. also, I have, again, water in the oil. for me, I think my timing crap is still good because I have steel guides. I have NOT even so much as taken the valve cover off to diagnose it. as far as it goes for me, I plan on pulling the motor to do a proper rebuild. when that will be, I really have no idea or time-frame. wish it already happened as we just got 10 inches of snow saturday and made it terrible on me / us getting back and forth to work in my son's 88 4runner and then a 2wd car.
enough about me.
my opinion (and please remember, my experience and expertise is limited) is you gotta figure out what is wrong 1st before you go buttoning things up and end up missing something. if you are leaking oil on the TC cover, my 1st suspect would be the area at the front of the valve cover where FIPG is placed to seal at the top of the timing cover. if you say your timing stuff is good, maybe it is. pulling the head and leaving the timing cover in place is a major pain in the stones, but can be done......and is what i am contemplating doing myself just to get my truck back on the road.
as you can see from my write-up, i am a putz. i do have the luxury of not necessarily NEEDING the truck to be running (exception being this past weekend), but rather WANTING it to be running. so I was meticulous with cleaning and sorting and reading and walking away on it etc etc etc. my plan is to pull this motor and do it the right way since right from the start (when I started it after the rebuild) I noted a oil leak from the pan because it is such a major PITA to remove and install the oil pan with the motor still in the truck.
I am not even sure how much is involved in pulling my motor because it is an AUTO. we pulled my son's 3vz, which really wasn't that terrible and I was eternally grateful we did because I was able to work on it on a stand.
good luck
Apr 3, 2014 | 03:09 AM
#230
Thread Starter
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,009
Likes: 122
From: Northeast Pennsylvania
well kids....here we go. don't really want to start a new thread because I want to realistically present the idea the nothing lasts forever.
I really took no shortcuts when I did my build, cuz it took 8 or 10 months of screwing around to make this happen.
but....it turned to crap. I started losing coolant a while ago and despite torquing the head bolts down an additional amount (can't recall because it was a long time ago) I continue to lose coolant. confident as I am that it has nothing to do with a timing chain guide failure is just how confident i am that i have a ruined headgasket or head.
my full intention right now is to pull the motor and rebuild this thing on a stand as it was infinitely difficult to do with it in the truck.
this is uncharted territory for me, but I am looking forward to learning as this is a different but similar animal to Joe's 3.0.
at this point, I have no pics. but my truck has spent the last 5 months or so outside my garage parked in the grass. I was able to start it up and take it for a quick ride and pull it into the 3rd bay and pop the hood. that's as far as I am today.
I am looking to have the block cleaned and crank serviced and likely get new pistons and boring out to .30 over has been recommended. I am intending on getting a new head and cam too as well as a header. I want to enjoy this truck for many years to come, so this time will be done right.
and just like last time, don't be in a hurry to see updates. this will be a slow meticulous process for me as I currently work 2 jobs.
I really took no shortcuts when I did my build, cuz it took 8 or 10 months of screwing around to make this happen.
but....it turned to crap. I started losing coolant a while ago and despite torquing the head bolts down an additional amount (can't recall because it was a long time ago) I continue to lose coolant. confident as I am that it has nothing to do with a timing chain guide failure is just how confident i am that i have a ruined headgasket or head.
my full intention right now is to pull the motor and rebuild this thing on a stand as it was infinitely difficult to do with it in the truck.
this is uncharted territory for me, but I am looking forward to learning as this is a different but similar animal to Joe's 3.0.
at this point, I have no pics. but my truck has spent the last 5 months or so outside my garage parked in the grass. I was able to start it up and take it for a quick ride and pull it into the 3rd bay and pop the hood. that's as far as I am today.
I am looking to have the block cleaned and crank serviced and likely get new pistons and boring out to .30 over has been recommended. I am intending on getting a new head and cam too as well as a header. I want to enjoy this truck for many years to come, so this time will be done right.
and just like last time, don't be in a hurry to see updates. this will be a slow meticulous process for me as I currently work 2 jobs.
Apr 3, 2014 | 03:21 AM
#231
This will go alot easier for you this time as you are more familiar with it now and working on a stand is sooo much easier. Will be out here looking forward to your build. Before removing your hood, I scribe a line around the hood hinge to make reinstalling it later on. Getting body lines straight is one of my least favorite things and is time consuming. It will pay off later on. Wishing you the best of luck.
Apr 15, 2014 | 07:30 PM
#234
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Kawaihae, Big Island of Hawaii
This thread is awesome and I was so stoked to see it's gone on so long after it's original post date. Thank you for taking the extra time and effort to document and photograph your steps, you've definitely helped me and surely numerous other folks out.
Sad to hear about your HG but it'll be a walk in the park with the motor out the second time around! Looking forward to hearing from you. Good luck.
Sad to hear about your HG but it'll be a walk in the park with the motor out the second time around! Looking forward to hearing from you. Good luck.
Apr 26, 2014 | 02:12 AM
#238
Thread Starter
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,009
Likes: 122
From: Northeast Pennsylvania
holy carp, what's this about?
Photobucket must want money.
just checked this out. I can either upgrade for $30 or wait for it(bandwith use) to reset on May 4th. I'll wait.
Last edited by 92 TOY; Apr 26, 2014 at 02:21 AM.
Apr 26, 2014 | 04:35 AM
#239
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 283
Likes: 2
From: N. Shore MA
Apr 26, 2014 | 11:28 AM
#240
Thread Starter
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,009
Likes: 122
From: Northeast Pennsylvania
