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95 4Runner 22RE random hesitation until 3500ish

Old 03-17-2019, 04:26 PM
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95 4Runner 22RE random hesitation until 3500ish



1995 Toyota 4Runner 22RE.

New engine super stock long block kit (RV2 Cam). Every sensor aside from ECM and O2 sensors new.(AFM,TPS,EFI Temp, Fuel pump, regulator, filter, and injectors. LCE EGR/Air Injection Delete.

My diagnostics shop says fuel pressure, timing etc. is great (should be pump, regulator and filter all new) and recommended parts that donít exist on a yota so here I am.

My new Denso o2 sensors will be here Monday but Iím at the point I hate what I once loved and am on the verge of her ďaccidental rolling off a cliffĒ

has anyone had similar issues that were resolved? Will my new o2 sensors fix it or should I be looking elsewhere.(keep in mind all but ECM and o2 is new) I didnít mention this was happening with OE motor that I replaced due to knock and blown head. Am I doomed or destined to have a 4Runner with a motor that will outlive my chassis?

Also new Intake, Header, Cat Punched. Only OE on that motor is Plenum, Intake Man. Throttle Body (maybe?)

Thanks
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:01 AM
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Didn't we just have this thread?
The OP had the timing wrong - way too advanced.

Have you replaced the cap rotor and wires? Cap and rotor that is NOT OEM has had issues like this on my 88 22-RE.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ev13wt View Post
Didn't we just have this thread?
The OP had the timing wrong - way too advanced.

Have you replaced the cap rotor and wires? Cap and rotor that is NOT OEM has had issues like this on my 88 22-RE.
I have replaced those as well. Iíll take another look at the timing if the o2 sensors donít work. Last I checked I was at 5 degrees.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:06 AM
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Worth noting all the brand new sensors data can be misread by the ECU due to dirty and loose connections, bad wiring or faulty grounding.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Worth noting all the brand new sensors data can be misread by the ECU due to dirty and loose connections, bad wiring or faulty grounding.
All grounds cleaned, connections seem tight. Bad wiring maybe but didnít see any issues when I pulled the harness for the swap.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:47 PM
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Ok. New Denso o2 sensors. Confirmed timing is good. Same old BS maybe even worse. Issue is only under load. So YotaTech experts all thatís left that I can think of is... Throttle body, Wire Harness, and ECM whatís more likely?

Starting to to think I should have gone with a 350 swap instead.

edit: forgot to add could it be a bad distributor?

Last edited by HardLuck_Harris; 03-18-2019 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:49 PM
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Had a friend recommend a new distributor, ignition pickup, and ICM. Parts ordered (itís only money)and now we wait. Any insight you 22re experts have can help me fix it or spend more money either way Iím running out of crap to replace.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:12 AM
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Iím gonna name that thing the best stripper name I can find. Because it thanklessly takes hundred dollar bills and leaves me all pent up and frustrated.

Taking suggestions here.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:19 AM
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What exactly did the shop recommend? A MAF maybe? The Toyota equipment on these is the vane airflow meter, they do develop worn spots so you might want to check the resistance is a smooth curve as the vane is moved.

I still content if it's "random" it's probably electrical.

Also of course keep in mind it's a 100hp motor pushing a pretty good sized off-road vehicle shaped like a brick. It has a pretty small power band 3200-4500 (iirc) from peak torque to peak horsepower. You can throw a metric ton of cash at it and it's really not going to sky rocket the power in the end.

If you want to continue stuffing cash in her G-string run it by a dyno shop and get some measurements you can compare against the available dyno outputs.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:28 PM
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Shop recommended an Air Charge Sensor. The AFM is new. Today I got my new distributor with new pickups and an ICM.

Installed and I donít want to jinx it but I think ďVeronicaĒ is fixed. But I have been fooled before.

Weíll call her V for short. Iíll follow up in a few days if itís fixed and Iíll be on sooner if she acts up again.

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Old 03-22-2019, 03:21 PM
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Put the new distributor and accessories in. Issue was gone for a bit. Now itís starting to act up again.

Heres the symptom. Thereís a big lag from just over 1500 to 3500. Before the new distributor it would act like itís starving for fuel and pop like bad timing. Then get over 3500 and she goes like a banshee.

This weekend its my plan to clean up and dielectric grease all connections. Hopefully someone will come across this thread and have the answer. Until then Iíll keep checking back with progress.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HardLuck_Harris View Post
Put the new distributor and accessories in. Issue was gone for a bit. Now itís starting to act up again.

That is a pointer to the "learned fuel trims", which means bad sensor data is skewing the baseline tune. Initially it starts with a conservative tune, IE rich and light on the timing advance. The ECU then tries to reduce emissions, IE leaner and more advance.

Your results are more likely because the ECU was powered down long enough than the parts you put on.
Heres the symptom. Thereís a big lag from just over 1500 to 3500. Before the new distributor it would act like itís starving for fuel and pop like bad timing. Then get over 3500 and she goes like a banshee.
Wide open throttle I assume?

This is really the happy spot for a 22re based engine. Again that's the center of the torque and horsepower curve, 3k+ untill " damn I better shift that's really screaming!" 4k

The popping was maybe a symptom of a weak ignitor, that is what you also replaced with the distributor, iirc. That's "flame out" due to a weak spark (maybe!, keep in mind there are tools to test this it's called a spark guage which is a adjustable gapped tool you place in the spark path and adjust the distance then compare the spark color), or just "after fire" which could be my note or just the baseline fuel trim. After fire is raw fuel combusting in the exhaust stream.

​​​​
This weekend its my plan to clean up and dielectric grease all connections. Hopefully someone will come across this thread and have the answer. Until then Iíll keep checking back with progress.
Dielectric grease is an insulator, it does not conduct electricity, it's purpose is to prevent corrosion due to moist air and direct water splashs. Do not expect it to work miracles.

What I am saying here is it can actually make things worse if you don't have good clean firm metal to metal contact. The "Weather Pak (ô)" connectors keep most of the splashed water out but do not help with the moisture/air trapped when they are put in place.

I am a big supporter of back-probing signal levels at the ECU. I suggest taking readings of voltage and resistance at the ECU plug before and after you "tighten up and clean" the connectors of the sensors. It will give you definitive answers to any effect you had on the signal levels.


...
The Toyota equivalent of the "charge" sensor is the air temp sensor which is integrated in the vafm.

.. In the end I think what you maybe experiencing is "four banger" shock and your just expecting to much from an 80's four cylinder running on a 25mhz 16bit(is that right nah I think it's an 8bit.. I digress) CPU.

Someone might be willing to compare your idle rpm to 3500rpm zero to whatever speed vs time. But it's not me, mine runs a diesel turbo charger and auto transmission.

..
There is a bit in my RTE thread about fine tuning the throttle sensor that will give you a little bit of "pep" maybe.
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:52 AM
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Man I appreciate your willingness to type all that out. I know these things arenít chalked full of power but what Iím experiencing is like a clogged fuel filter symptoms on an old non-computerized engine. Iíll skip the dielectric grease when I clean all the plugs up.

Something i forgot to mention is when this issue is more prevalent the idle gets rough and pops some. I attributed the pop to the cam at first but now Iím pretty certain theyíre related.

Again thanks for all your input.
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HardLuck_Harris View Post
Man I appreciate your willingness to type all that out. I know these things arenít chalked full of power but what Iím experiencing is like a clogged fuel filter symptoms on an old non-computerized engine. Iíll skip the dielectric grease when I clean all the plugs up.

Something i forgot to mention is when this issue is more prevalent the idle gets rough and pops some. I attributed the pop to the cam at first but now Iím pretty certain theyíre related.

Again thanks for all your input.
no you can and probably should use the water proofing if you're going to go through the task of cleaning them all up. Just be aware it's even more important that they (female end) have a good bite (are tight) on the other side.

You didn't answer the question about full throttle. Can you roll into the throttle slower and it doesn't bog?

This "running out of fuel" sensation is a good description. It's also something you can check with a fuel pressure guage. If you look around, I think it's some of Terry's threads, you'll find pictures of the gunk that can build up in the fuel hardlines which makes it hard for the fuel supply to keep up with demand.

It's also possible that it's over fueling, given your description, which is why I ask about the throttle position your using.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
no you can and probably should use the water proofing if you're going to go through the task of cleaning them all up. Just be aware it's even more important that they (female end) have a good bite (are tight) on the other side.

You didn't answer the question about full throttle. Can you roll into the throttle slower and it doesn't bog?

This "running out of fuel" sensation is a good description. It's also something you can check with a fuel pressure guage. If you look around, I think it's some of Terry's threads, you'll find pictures of the gunk that can build up in the fuel hardlines which makes it hard for the fuel supply to keep up with demand.

It's also possible that it's over fueling, given your description, which is why I ask about the throttle position your using.
My apologies for missing a couple of your questions. I was still on my first cup of coffee. Yes the issue is much more prevalent in WOT. I can roll into it with less of an issue but have to avoid the lowest 25% of throttle.

My fuel pressure is good. New pump, filter and regulator. Confirmed 33-34psi at idle and same at WOT. I havenít checked behind the rail though.

Stumbled on on a video of a guy with a leaky antenna that for whatever reason Toyota thought it was a good idea to put it over the ECM and mine just floats in the fender. Ive ignored it for a couple years not knowing the electronics below may be getting some of that. I wrongly assumed that could do any harm. So while Iím cleaning connections Iíll probably start there and see if there is moisture damage or corrosion on the electrical components behind the kick plate.

Do you have any places you can point me and my multimeter to perform that test you suggested before and after cleaning resistance?
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:14 AM
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Again if it is an intermittent issue, it could be a connection issue. A second possible issue is inaccurate ECT ( engine coolant temperature ) due to air in the system, what happens as air gets trapped against the ECT sensor the value sent to the ECU is showing the air bubbles temperature.

I would probably start with checking your five volt reference (VCC) output from the ECU then at both the vafm and tps. You're going to need your FSM to locate this.

Why are you avoiding the first 25% of the throttle. It kind of points to an issue with the tps you shouldn't ignore..
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:51 PM
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Well itís fixed. The two things that I can say that did it. New distributor with new pickups and rebuilt the fan clutch. 6 months of pain and heartache have come to a close.

Thanks for the help if you did.

Good luck for guys with issues like this in the future.
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