92 TOY

breaking one was a huge concern of mine. although I did not originally break any, and, obviously, none on this round, I do not want to push my luck.

irab88

iTrader: (4)

yeah, break/strip/shear one and the whole head has to come off. ees no bueno

snobdds

I would not go in and loosen up the bolts to retorque them. It might break the seal on the headgasket and then you would have to redo the entire thing. I would see how the retorquing goes.

If I was loosing coolant, the first thing I would do is a coolant pressure test. See if the cooling system holds pressure. If it dosen't, you will see bubbles where's it leaking...if the leak is external. If the pressures goes down and you don't see any bubbles, then the leak would be internal and a compression test would be needed.

Good luck.

Pumpkinyota

What he said

If the leak is not external, I would be wondering why you don't have milky mocha colored oil!

92 TOY

thanks man. and this is one of those things I hinted at when I said I had a lot of things in my face right now and couldn't really devote any time to the hubs.


steel guides are intact and looking fine.

crossing fingers and toes!!!

tanx.

snobdds

I don't need the tool anytime soon. It did what I needed it to do and it stopped my spindle bushings from howeling at me. Take your time...

92 TOY

tanx tanx tanx

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Jerry....

Sounds like, and I hope, u had a lil leak into the combustion chamber at #6... which would likely cause no milk shake to be present just yet (coolant sneaking in just before combustion... which would also cause loss of performance).

Lemme share (remind u of) something....

Remember my "cam swap without pulling the head"? Yep, that involved strapping down the head and REMOVING EVERY head bolt..... to swap in the new cam....Ran it another 5k mi or so w/out incident.

Far as ur worry of warpage.... I doubt it, especially since u only got a quarter turn? However.... it could very well be starting to stretch out those threads..... if it doesnt leak, I would still pull the valve cover in a little while and make sure that that 1 seemingly loose bolt isn't backing out again. If that's the case, then you know exactly what your problem is. It would suck to have to pull the head, but I had a Helicoil in my 86 for over 100,000 miles without any issue.... In fact, I would be willing to bet that it wind up stronger than any of the other ones, haha. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer in advance. Just being objective. Best wishes with this, Jerry, I know how that can freak 1 out! You've always done a very thorough job, I wouldn't worry too much about your actual work being the issue... I would highly doubt that!

92 TOY

thanks.

so, it seems like concensus is to NOT fiddle with it (loosen them all up and tighten back down?)


haven't even so much as started it today. will run it back and forth to work tomorrow which should log about 40 miles on it. if I said my prayers right, I should not have lost any water( yes, water. cuz I lost my RED a long time ago.).

92 TOY

meh....not sure what to say. I drove it to and from work on friday and on saturday I put about 12oz of water in it. don't know if that what because I lost water or if it was because of an air pocket(s) from working on it. whatever the case, I am still on pins and needles with this thing. I feel OK driving it short distances with fingers crossed that, if it is a head gasket leak, it doesn't completely fail me mid-trip.

we will see.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Jerry,

Hoping for the best!

I think its a good idea to loosen then tighten, but I think in this case, with not sooooooo many miles..... but plentyto be broken in, what u did will reveal what you'll be doing next....... "NOTHING? OR PULLING?"

12oz? That could easily get lost in the process if u pulled plenty to do this and then refilled? 12k later I'm hearing gurgling in my heater core and that general area still! Haha. Of course..... 40 miles on water? Hmmm, maybe ur just gonna have to keep the son on standby and drive it til u either "see the white smoke",...... or see nothing.
:prayswithfervorsmiley: hahaha.

92 TOY

thanks man.

here's some stuff that has me concerned.

we had the conversation via multiple posts when I was asking concensus and Ian had said about having troulble with (I think) that bolt "breaking free". my concern is that maybe, just maybe, none of those bolts are at 63 now with the exception of that culprit #6. that's why I was asking for thoughts on loosening them all to the point where they were essentially all at ''0" and start the torque sequence again and finish at 63lbs. my brain still wants to do it that way. reason for this additionally is that even when I set the torque wrench to 63, I only got a few of them to turn that additional bit, not all of them. so, right now, in my mind, I have a cornucopia of torque readings and am feeling really uneasy about it.

bottom line is......if I need to go back in, loosen and then tighten, I will. If, for no other reason, than to say I tried.

if the head gasket is failing, then so be it. this will just be another project and should be able to be buttoned up a bit faster than the last 2.

Pumpkinyota

Interesting thing:

When you are torquing bolts, the torque wrench is not measuring the downward force of the bolt. What it is actually measuring is the rotating resistance of the bolt. The threads on a bolt are exerting leverage, and acting as a force multiplier (think of a screw style jack) on the object they are being threaded into.

This is important, because the torque specs that Toyota lays out in their FSM are for unused head bolts. As a result of cutting the threads on a bolt, there are many small ridges on the face of the threads. These ridges add to the rotating resistance encountered when installing a bolt. When a bolt has been used several times, these ridges are burnished smooth, thus lessening the rotating resistance needed to gain the same down force.

A lot of engine builders recommend running non torque to stretch bolts in to approximately half of their specced torque several times, then removing, coating in a moly-based assembly lube, and reinstalling to torque. This method gets more uniform downforce on the head, due to removal of some rotational bolt resistance. It is important that if you use this method that you only torque to approximately 80% of spec, as your removal of rotational resistance will increase the amount of down force you are placing on the head.

Food for thought.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Heya pumkin, great post!

This is why u also chase the holes well, as they can retain lots of that debris/burrs/burnt carbon, etc, right? Amazinf how the bolts go in with far less resistance after a good chasing.

Jerry, remember when I swapped in the cam at like 1200 miles into break in on that first motor? I HD ratchet strapped the head down tight, pulled all the head bolts, etc. The block had already been chased and such, a few times, but doing it that time, I got more out, but I still then used the same head bolts in the same holes..... pulled all the liquids from in them, etc. I figured if I then lost the HG, meh, at least I tried... So I KWYmean.... It never leaked before or thereafter.

With this replacement block, it was done so thoroughly, yet the OEM HG failed instantly... Never could conclude wut exactly happened.... but my guess is it had something to do with the new bolts and old block.... Second time around, doing nothing different, but having pulled, chased, then reinserted the bolts.... not a steamy moment since on this motor either.

I know ur busy.... hope u dont HAVE to dig back in.... but meh, few hours and its done!

92 TOY

OK...I appreciate the input, but I really don't understand what is being said.

I will just stick with the previous consensus of leaving it alone.

If I can just limp it until we get an additional vehicle, then I will be happy to tear into it.

Pumpkinyota

I guess what I am saying is one of two things.

1.) With previously used head bolts, a slightly lower torque was probably no big deal. Watch to see if you still have coolant loss, if not, rock n roll.

2.) If you decide to pull out bolts, pull them out one at a time, re-chase the threads, dip them in moly lube, re-install to about 40 lbs each. Once you are done with all bolts, bring them up to 58 lbs in a star pattern, or using tightening order in FSM. Drive it like you stole it.

92 TOY

hey guys...sometimes m ignorance of all this stuff comes shining through blindingly. I guess I am just imagining that the head is some blob on there now being held irregularly with different torques.

just the simple line of you saying to take the bolts out one at a time, makes me feel a ton better.

these were brand new bolts from ENGNBLDR 22k ago.

those holes were meticulously cleaned , chased and lubed during the build. so I fee very confident at their conditions at that time.

thanks guys!!!!

Pumpkinyota

I should specify, remove them in a star pattern as well

92 TOY

so. I'm not dead. so that's a good thing.

truck has been running well.

as far as losing water, it is still doing it, but less. was going through a gallon-a-week for a bit there, now it's been 2 weeks and I think I may just have to use up my gallon today.

Joe and I have temporarily switched vehicles.....he is getting increasingly nervous about driving his 10 miles one-way to work with the risk of deer etc. he gets home after 8pm which will put him in the dark / dusk time of day and I would rather him smack a deer with my truck, than his.

we went to look at a used car in a guy's driveway yesterday and may just buy it. don't want to jinx it, so I won't really talk any more about it.

if he does end up with the car, my truck will get pulled off the road and get redone. but funds are non-existent right now and to even try to make this transaction will take some outside help (IE: a loan).

meanwhile, life is quite busy as I accepted an officer position with the ambulance service out here as well as Joe and I are at the firehouse several times a week as we have be redoing our brush truck to have it ready for the season which has already started.

hopefully someone will read this. again, I have barely been able to get on here, let alone update my thread or update myself on everyone else's.

92 TOY

well...just checking in.

busy as usual and things have been a bit complicated.

Joe bought his car. a 1995 BMW 525i. found it about 2 miles away and for $1500. runs well, was inspected and current and the purchase went well. nice car. hopefully we get some good miles out of it.

his 4runner is currently mothballed because I am still, for now, still buzzing around in my truck (which I will show in a later pic, almost was no more)

1st of all, Joe's car





aaaand.....did my duty 2 days ago, for what was to be the largest brush / wildfire I have ever been at. this thing spread so violently fast it was very dangerous. I had parked, at least, several hundred yards away from a garage where the fire (part of it) was near and got picked up by a piece of apparatus enroute to the scene. little did i know, my truck almost became a scene itself. the fire ended up being several acres and had started when a farmer's tractor caught fire in the field and quickly spread in all directions. came within about 30 feet of a garage and house (you're welcome) and was overall at least a thousand feet wide and at least twice as long. the pic you see will be where it jumped the road. I don't know, but would love to find out, who protected my truck....definitely prevented tragedy.

anyways, hope all is well with everyone, gotta do some running around and the do some fab-work on our brush truck.

here's the pic.from where I am taking the pic, to about a 10 foot perimeter of my truck, is the only spot that did not burn. so someone made a good effort to protect my truck.



and the back of my truck



how it started



my view from up on top of our brush truck...this is a hunting stand. pretty heavy-duty contruction using utility poles as support. the top is melted.



whoops



and 1 more

showing some additional apparatus and smoldering hay-rolls