89possom

hey ive been reading this site for a while and now that i have a relevant ? i figured i'd register. I purchased a 89 4runner 22re 5spd with 217XXX miles back in august and have been driving it every day since. Since the day i got it it ran great, all ive done is replace the thermostat as far as maintinance goes and run some injector cleaner through 2 tanks of gas. As i said this is my daily driver...i go out this morning and crank it up and turn the heat on and let it run about 15 mins then drop on my lil boy a half mile away and notice the brake light is on (completely unrealated but w/e) so i shoot back home and top off the resivour...light goes out. I continue my 20 min comute i make daily and about half way there the truck cut off unexpectedly at a light. I write this off to me actually having the truck idling a tad lower than it needs and the cool weather we're finally getting in NC. Crank it back up and take off again, everything is fine then it starts dying down, i drop back to 4th then to 3rd gear and its finally keeping up. Stop at a intersection to check under the hood...it cuts off again. Everything looks ok, checked the oil the night before as well as the coolant...gauges inside the truck look ok, charging system check, oil pressure between 1/4 and 1/2 mark (low pressure compared to my F150 but it may be ok for the yote i dunno) temp is around 1/4 to 1/3 of the gauge. Try to crank back up and it winds and winds...i couldnt tell if the motor was turning or not, sounded different to me but it finally caught and i threw it in gear and took off, a half mile down the road it acted like it wanted to get right then backfired blew i big cloud of smoke and kept on sputtering along in 2nd gear pinned and only taching up about 3800rpm. 3rd gear just killed it so on another half mile and into another store yard....cut off again. Its running so rough now im thinkin it threw a rod or somthing look underneath no oil running out, check wires again nothing seems out of place. Also the trucks exhaust is noticabley louder...very loud in fact, im running a glasspack on it but normally its just a hair louder than stock, this is like straight pipe loud. Called a buddy whos blown up more toy's than anybody ive ever known and he listens to it turn over on the phone and finally crank and says "its jumped time...if it runs drive it on to work and worry about it after your shift is over" (he lives by the ride or die, when in doubt turn it out motto's) So i did just that, puttered along in 2nd gear caution lights on for another 2 miles. Parked it at work and went back this afternoon with a trailor and pulled it home. While at work i heard the following...Fuel Filter, Cat, Jumped Time...Got a coworker to help me load it up, hes a "mechanic" and hes been right before so he listened to it run and says that the exhaust mannifold sounds like its got a whoppin hole in it and that would make it run like that, my nieghbor who is a pretty durn good shadetree guy agreed somewhat with this and said that he couldnt hear my fuel pump coming on but the truck will sit there and run at idle although sounding like a farmall super a tractor it will run so he said that probably wont it (and ive never heard a fuel pump whirr before startup on a yota like you do on a chevy)....My local toyota man (whos done 2 motor installs for me and a timing chain and clutch in the past on other vehicles) told me if he was betting it would be on the fuel pump. I guess what im getting at is where to start first. I know start with the cheapest but I'm working 2nd shift 6 and 7 days a week right now and have a 17mth old son i tend to everyday until work so between those 2 i dont have a lot of time to try this and that... If you have Blackberry Messenger IM me my PIN is 3124944B, or shoot me a email, i assume thats listed on the profile and ill send a short vid clip so you can hear what the truck is doing. Please any advice you can give will be appreciated.

o also the distributor, plugs, wires, battery etc were all changed shortly before i bought the truck so im pretty much rulling them out as the cause but im open to ideas...

>And where is the fuel filter on these trucks, i cant find one, and i followed the lines from the tank all the way up to the firewall.... cant see one under the hood either, on my 88 2wd is was right in front of the tank on the framerail.

xxxtreme22r

ok my eyes hurt after the first line, please put that in normal paragraphs, I highly doubt anyone is gonna read that far into it.

myyota

The fuel filter is under the intake manifold, there is an access panel inside the passenger side wheel well so you can gain access to it. The fuel filter is a good place to start, but do you know if the timing chain has ever been changed before ?, with 217000 miles if it hasn`t been done, it needs to be done.

tried4x2signN

Regardless, it needs a timing chain, and a good troubleshooting... B/c timing chains don't just jump time.

Old, worn, cracked and missing is when you get the jump.. So it needs PM.

#1, this is a INTERFERENCE motor,

2,

http://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota...any-hours.html

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/


Now it's time to get a FSM or Chiltons.

goog your trucks make, year and "FSM" for the fastest rout to one.

tried4x2signN

oh wait... you said "jump time, question mark"


Sorry... When I get my eyesight back I'll read more of your post and try to help more.

tried4x2signN

I swear I looked at my keyboard and was still seeing his post....

89possom

Sorry for the long post as well as the poor grammar skills. I get to typing sometimes and get carried away. I'll try and do better.

tried4x2signN - hope you get your eyesite back

1. Went and pulled the fuel filter, dont know if its bad or not yet because there's no store open this late to get one...i'll try that tommorrow. It wasnt the original (i would hope not) it was a autocraft or something. Anyway while i had it off i re-routed hoses so it now sits above the right side fender under the hood.

2. checked all the plug wires with a spare plug, all 4 wires are firing and as i said before the plugs are new so they shouldnt be fouled out. Not ruling it out but they shouldnt be.

3. checked the cat...Un-bolted it and somebody had already done the favor of gutting it for me. Quite cleanly too, looked cleaner than the one i did on another truck. So thats definitely not clogged up.

4. Fuel pump is coming on. Turn on the key without clutch mashed and i can hear it come on. Whether or not its got the right pressure is beyond my knowledge, i dont have a gauge available at the moment.

5. fired it up, checked where the distributor was set at and then started turning it, idle smoothed out but its still sounds like its going to come out from under the hood and run off without the truck. So im guessing i got it back closer to being in time with the firing sequence but the mechanical timing is still off.

Really sounds like something has come loose in there, which im assuming its either the timing chain flopping round or its spun a bearing or something. It doesnt sound like a bearing cause i had that happen to another 22r and thats a definite bottom end noise this sounds like valves ticking almost...almost...

Going to change the filter tommorrow, which im sure isnt the problem then going to call the mechanic back and prepare to be sick...

xxxtreme22r

when you checked the timing, did you use the jumper on the diagnostic connector? You have to on the 22re.

in your first post you never mention a knock. which confuses me a little.

last person who described their motor running like a farm all tractor, his plug wires were crossed up. Check that as well. But in this case I doubt it.

now if there is a "knock" or "ticking" sound (not the same BTW) that affects the motor's power it can be a few things. ie, warn out valve guides, severely off valve lash, bad flat spot on cam, broken rocker arm, piston ring gone which would cause a huge miss and piston slap, and rod bearings. These all come to mind.

Without spending alot of cash replaceing stuff, it's better to rule out a few things and buy yourself a compression gauge if you don't already have one. DO a compression check and a shade tree leak down if compression is way out whack. The leak down is done by adding some oil in the spark plug holes and redoing compression. If compression goes up when oil is applied then your problem is rings. If not, then it's somewhere in the valve train. Whether it be a valve/valve seat or valve stem seals.

If you suspect valve/valve stem seals, then you have to diagnose if the engine is burning oil and seeing blue smoke out the exhaust and when it does it, does it do it only at full throttle or does it smoke when at a heavy throttle followed by closing the throttle. If it does smoke when letting off the throttle then it would be valve sten seals and/or guides.

I hope this helps a little.

89possom

What would you suggest to buy for a timing chain kit? Budget wise im not into the DOA kit however ive always read their engines are strong and tough as nails. However i only got $750 out of pocket in the truck and dont want to throw another 250 into it on a high end timing chain. Im not planning on building this truck, its simply a daily driver and hunting truck.

Ebay has a plethora of kits to choose from and a few of them come with steel backed guides. Have any of ya'll had luck with any of those kits. Such as http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyot...Q5fAccessories

There's also some for not much more that includes the cover...would that be something to try and get as well or dont worry about it?

tried4x2signN

To troubleshoot the timing, I'd remove the valve cover and rotate the crank to "0" on the crank.

If the cam is pin is at 6:00 turn it over again and get the pin at 12:00.

Then you can remove your dist cap and see where the button is pointing. TDC and cam pin at 12:00 and you'll want the dist button pointing at what would be the #1 plug wire.

Any weird stuff and it's timing chain time.

You can also look down the front of the engine and inspect the guides for anything weird and out of place.

89possom

thanks XXXtreme22r, didnt see your post before my last one....
Na the wires are in the right order...as i said in my jumbled up 1st post ive drove it daily and have really enjoyed the truck and it ran very well till today. So unless one of these stray cats crawled up there and crossed em that aint it lol.
Up until today there hasnt been any ticking or knocking that i noticed. It cranked everytime without hesitation and ran smooth. its not a "knock" more of a ticking noise. You can kinda hear it through the intake and airbox. When it was just "puttering" and barely running i think what i was hearing was the lil metal flap inside the top of the airbox lid where the airflow sensor is. It was turning over so slow that it was flapping in there.

The motor hasnt been burning any oil...its got a small leak around the oil pan gasket. I just kept a good check on it since ive had it & in 3 months i put about a half a quart in it a week ago. Checked it again today after all the mess and its right in the middle 'tween the hash marks. Doesnt smoke any at all. Only when it backfired today did anything come out of the tailpipe other than exhaust air.

I purchased it from a girl about 2 1/2 hours away from me, went drove it and it ran good, power died bout 20 mins into the trip home, i was scared to stop since it was running, for the next 2 hours i drove it home. Popped the hood and it had run on 3 cylinders all the way home, one of the plug wires came loose. My cousin followed right behind me and he said it didnt smoke the whole time. And with it in the shop tonight i looked and it wasnt smoking any.

I havent "checked the timing" in the correct way as you said, and i dont have the proper tools for a lot of this stuff to check that, or pressure and pretty much anything. Im farely mechanical minded though. If i can take it apart i can usually fix it and put it back together and try to do as much as i can myself to save money but i know when im over my head. Stuff like changing oil, brakes, starter, alternators, slave and master cylinders ive done before. Pretty much anything bolt on i can handle but troubleshooting automotive engines is not my calling in life.

Even though it was a stupid idea to me i tried to remove the heatshield carefully and broke all 3 bolts off in the exhaust manifold. It aint got a hole and it aint cracked so yea thats out too. Just the same leak thats been there since i got it around the connection to the downpipe.

I guess ill load it up tommorrow morning and let someone with better knowledge than myself listen to it. i have neither the tools for the job nor the time to fix myself.

xxxtreme22r

all you need is a paper clip, a 12mm wrench and a timing light to check and set the ignition timing. All of these things are good to get for the future as they can save you a heck of a lot of money having a shop do them for you.

89possom

tried4x2~ your suggestions would involve have to remove the timing chain cover? Above my head and no time currently to do so.

Reading the links you sent earlier, i read the tensioner is oil pressure driven? The pressure gauge in the cab usually reads a hair under half mark driving at speed...Idle it drops down to the 1/4 mark. Is that normal? If not i wonder if it wasnt keeping tight as it should.

No timing light xxxtreme22r, guess i should probably invest in one sooner or later.

xxxtreme22r

oil pressure fluctuation as you describe is normal.

89possom

So my mechanic called me back today and said he checked the compression and i believe he said 1 and 4 had normal compression, 2 and 3 had none....Im led to believe from my limited knowledge that the valves are probably bent on those two cylinders and it will probably need to rebuild the valvetrain...as well as the timing chain while the head and all are off. Would the pistons be messed up too from contacting the valves? If thats indeed what happened. Do i need to look at finding a replacement motor or would i come out cheaper on a rebuild?

Any suggestions? been looking on craiglist for a motor to swap. Found a few for a descent price with a lot less miles than what is on mine...was thinkin about pullin this one and building it up but sinking a bunch of money in it is pretty pointless just to drive to work. What do yall think about it.

BishopLevi

Considering the mileage, you absolutely must consider changing the timing chain and gears, i. e. , a kit. Chains can jump gear teeth, mine did. Problem is as much a problem of worn gear teeth as much as a chain problem. (bicycle chain and gears are similar in operation and when worn, the chain will jump when enough torque applied). You can even get water in your oil if the chain is neglected, but that's worth a search for specifics.