derockus

iTrader: (1)

1989 4Runner 22RE IFS. Ever since I got the truck the steering has had a bad wander and loose steering wheel. Think, driving at any speed and you have to frequently rock the steering wheel back and forth to keep it going straight. If I could drive down an airport runway (flat, level, straight) and hold the steering wheel at 0 degrees I think it would still wander a little bit. It's not mis-aligned because I don't have to hold the steering wheel cocked to keep it straight. Bumps will jerk it around too. Also, when I'm cruising along the wheel feels like I have to turn it too far to get the wheels to respond (too much play). On a bumpy, rutted road I can almost feel a 'clunk' when the steering wheel gets to the angle it needs to start moving the tires. I know it's not a Ferrari but it is looser than any vehicle I've ever driven. The steering is an issue in 2wd, 4wd, hubs locked, hubs unlocked, paved road, dirt road. All. the. time.

Current mileage: 209,900 miles

Replaced
CVs 200,000
Front shocks 206,555
Inner/outer tie rods 207,050
Pitman arm, idler arm 207,050 (then aligned)
Ball joints 209,860
Inner/outer bearings and races 209,860

What's left to try?! All I can think to do is tighten up the preload on the power steering gear box. Would an old steering damper allow this much wandering?

Like I said, I just replaced the wheel bearings so I may go tighten those up. The procedure I used to install those was to torque the adjustment nut to 43ft-lb, then loosen and re-torque to 18ft. Install star washer, then torque lock nut to 35ft-lb. Any better recommendations? Should I go up to 20ft-lbs on that second adjustment nut torquing?

(Thanks, YT. I've searched and searched and read a lot of threads over the last year. I'm getting fed up because I've replaced so many of the things other people have tried. I don't regret replacing them, they all needed it. But I keep expecting the last one to finally solve the problem and it just hasn't).

Just for the heck of it, a pic from scouting before the hunting trip this weekend:

scope103

Too much toe-out will cause wandering. And no, it won't cause you to need to hold the steering wheel cocked to go straight. (That happens when the camber/caster is way off, or the tire pressure isn't the same.) You really can't say the alignment is correct unless you check it with a machine (of some sort).

How far can you turn the steering wheel while stopped? 30mm is the spec. http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../3onvehicl.pdf

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Ok. I'm skeptical that the alignment is what's causing it. The issue persisted before and after my last alignment (~3000 miles ago).

I'm guessing the 30mm free play measurement is the radial distance traveled by the steering wheel on the rim of the steering wheel. The picture does a bad job illustrating where they want you to take this measurement. Do they really want you to measure way out in space like the have arrows pointing? Would wheel free play contribute to wandering? What's a good "small increment" as recommended by the FSM. 1/4 turn, 1 turn, any suggestion? Thanks for the reply!

scope103

A decent alignment shop knows a lot more about steering than I do; they really should have pointed out to you exactly what was causing the wander.

I understand the 30mm measurement is on the rim on the steering wheel. Consider putting a piece of tape on the wheel, so that you can not only measure it statically (sitting stopped) but while driving down a straight road. If there's a difference in the slack, it could indicate a problem elsewhere than the steering gear box.

Good luck!

MudHippy

Just tighten it up, and see if it makes a difference. So long as the steering wheel isn't too hard to turn, doesn't bind up at all, and/or doesn't have a problem returning to center after corners, then it's fine. When I tightened mine up I didn't measure anything. And it made a huge difference in the tightness feeling of the steering. Notice they say 30mm max. It's not like there's a min. So none(0mm) would still be ideal. But don't count on achieving that. I couldn't, even when I adjusted it way too tight. Some of the play will come from the normal operation of the other steering components. And is perfectly normal for these trucks.

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks MudHippy. Seen a lot of your posts, always appreciate the straight talk. Tonight I'm going to tweak it and see if I can get her right.

Sturmcrow

Now I feel stupid. My steering has always been a bit loose too. New balljoints and idler arm with no effect. Who woulda thought there is an adjustment for that!

These trucks are weird, but I love 'em anyway.

derockus

iTrader: (1)

man, they put that steering gear box way the heck down there. I wasn't able to get an open-end wrench on it from above, the side, or thru the wheel well. I think I'm going to pick up a crows foot tonight and try and get at it that way. Pretty sure it's a 17mm.

Gevo

I can double check for you when I get home, but I just installed my steering gear box and I believe the locknut is smaller than 17mm.

I'm glad I read this thread, I followed the directions for putting the gear box back together and there is a specific torque the fsm suggest to adjust the steering gear to.. I will test the feel of it soon

osv

this ^^^ can make a huge difference.

you can measure it in your driveway; you can change the toe, and see if the problem persists.

you could have had the problem prior to the work that was done, because of defective parts, and now it's just a toe-out adjustment problem.

please let us know if that steering box adjustment fixes the wandering.

MudHippy

It's 17mm, for sure.

There's a certain amount of preload you're supposed to have the worm shaft set to before(and after) tightening the locknut. I'm thinking it's more of a minimum required amount though. But isn't something you need to worry about once it's installed. And I can't see how it could be accurately measured post-install anyway. Notice the word "Starting" after Total preload in the FSM.


So any adjustment after the fact really does need to be based on the feel of it(through the steering wheel). Which isn't terribly difficult or complicated to do. You just do a little adjusting, then check the play in the steering wheel. Then do some more, and check again. Until adjusting it tighter doesn't give you any less play, but just makes the steering wheel harder to turn. With the only real way to know when you've overtightened it being to do just that. Then you just need to back it off a little. Then make sure it's not binding at all from lock to lock. Then tighten the lock nut to 34 ft.lbs. Then test drive it, making sure it's not doing anything it shouldn't. Repeat as necessary.

One more word of caution. Adjusting mine made it leak like a sieve right there. There's a washer under the nut that has an integral rubber seal on the ID of it(and is labeled in the FSM as a non-reusable part). Apparently I messed that up somehow. So I ended up having to coat the entire business with a thick layer of RTV(over the nut, washer, end of adjusting screw, and where it all meets the top of the gear box). It's held up fine though since then(no leaks).

And I agree in full with the toe in/out theory.

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I went and read the FSM on that section and like you said, it was more of a bench-torque after rebuilding the box.

As far as checking the feel of the free play, I can do this with the wheels on the ground right? I don't need them up in the air?

MH, can you just give me an idea of how much adjustment that screw needs? Is a full revolution the difference between flopping around and binding, or does it take a couple turns to notice a difference? I just don't want to be dinking around doing 1/8 turns for the rest of the week just waiting to notice any change.

Ugh, leaks! My pump leaks now, hopefully I don't spring one down there too. Maybe I should've mention that in my initial description of the problem. Any reason that a leaky pump would contribute to a loose wheel? It really isn't that leaky to be honest. Somewhat of an annoying drip, but I might put an ounce in it every 2,000-3,000 miles is all.

If playing with this adjustment screw doesn't fix it I'll take it in to the alignment shop and rule out (again) any toe/caster/camber problems.

HighLux

I would always get an alignment before I fiddle with the gearbox. or is it pandoras box?

MudHippy

IIRC, all the tightening I could get out of it, without going too far, was less than a full turn. I want to say somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4. This was 6 or 7 years ago when I did it. So don't quote me on that.

And no, a leaky pump is just a nuisance. It really won't cause any problems. Just a mess. And the damn things can be a real PITA to fix. I rebuilt mine(replaced all the seals), and that made it leak A LOT less. But it still leaks a little. Come to find out after the fact, it was/is leaking from the cap quite a bit. Basically, whenever I need to give it some revs to increase the system pressure(make it easier to steer, generally when I'm dug into some deep snow or mud), it wants to spit some fluid out from around the cap. And I just can't seem to totally stop it from doing it. So I gave up trying. I just keep a little ATF behind the seat to keep it topped off.

Oh, wheels on the ground.

HighLux

What can you check for with wheels on the ground? Wheel bearings? Toe/camber?

(not arguing...generally curious)

MudHippy

It just makes it easier to distinguish the actual play in the steering, from the point at which the wheels begin to turn, after all the play in the steering is taken up. If that makes any sense.

scope103

Testing steering effort with the wheels on the ground is a little iffy; how do you separate out the grip of the tires?

So I would jack it up just for the tightening of the gear box. Or, if your garage floor is smooth enough, you could put two sheets of plastic sheeting under each front tire (plastic grocery bags will do). It's surprising how little friction there is between them.

And I'm with MudHippy and HighLux; you want to be very careful tightening the gear box. Since you probably can't do it bench-style (just how do you measure 4.3 in-lbs?), you're in uncharted territory.

And don't take the steering gear box apart. I've never done a Toyota, but a Mitsubishi gear box has un-retained "needles" in the needle bearing. You don't want to be on your hands and knees looking for tiny parts.

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys. The weather was garbage last night and I don't have a garage/shop/carport or even a driveway. I'm going to get on it tonight if it clears up.

Gevo

Oh gosh, don't be a thick head like ma and take your gearbox apart.. that was such a pain in the ass.
I screwed up on top of everyting and pulled a piece out that I wasn't suppoed to.. and you end up with this.. similar to Scops103's warning..


this is what it looks like FYI



If it's not leaking and grinding.. don't touch it!

derockus

iTrader: (1)

Haha, that looks like a rude job there. I've got no plans to take it out of the truck or take it apart. I'm just going to fiddle with the adjustment screw and see if I can take out the free play. The FSM reccomends the procedure so I'm not going overboard.