TheMountainMan

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

One would be surprised If for what ever reason the starter drive was some how jammed in the ring gear that it could not turn.

Because your bar on the crank bolt would also spin the starter with the engine if it was free to turn. Just still engaged to the ring gear.

Had a issue like this once dragging the vehicle with a Chevy 3/4 ton pick up when the clutch was let out on the jammed vehicle it locked up the real axle at like 35 mph. Interesting how strong that little piece was.
After about 3 times we quit.

It could also be the front of the engine timing chain jammed unless you have all ready ruled that out.

TheMountainMan

[Thank you for your time.]

Was your problem the starter stuck in a bind or a broke t - chain, seized/stuck piston ect.

If not the starter have you or anyone else heard of this?

As for the chain, I've not pulled the cover yet.

This is going to sound really dumb...
Which would take less time pulling The starter or v-cover?
(This is in a SA runner w/ 4-5" springs, if it matters for access)
I've read that the starter is a pain, but I figure it would have to take less time than v-cover removal & reinstall.
But I would rather ask before I start, as I'm only going to have around a hour today.
Thanks for your time & input.

bswarm

Why not pull the plugs out and rotate the engine by hand? While the plugs are out shine a flashlight down the plug holes and see if there's any marks on the piston tops from kissing the valves.

TheMountainMan

The plugs are out, can't turn it. The plugs were out & it was turning over for 3-4 days before it "stuck/locked" (before I bought it)
That is why I'm having a hard time thinking it broke the chain or seized when not running & turning over for days.
Good call on looking for contact on pistons about to do that now & then probably pull the starter if I don't see any marks on piston (hopefully one of the front 2 are close to TDC ).

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

His problem was not being able to turn the engine even with a huge amount of leverage on the crank bolt

Myself I think valve cover is much easier only because it is on top 4 nuts and a few odds and ends.

bswarm

One other thing I just found on my 22RE yoda. I put a Bosch oil filter on the last oil change, and it would crank over very fast like it had no compression the first thing in the morning, and when the oil pressure came up the cranking returned to a normal speed and would finally start. I put a Fram filter back on and it starts normally every time now. Pretty sure the Bosch filter had a defective anti-drainback valve in it, the chain tensioner is oil pressure activated. My guess is you may have jumped the cam timing cranking it over if the filter was defective.

TheMountainMan

Thank you for the help. It's starting to rain on me. So I guess starter for now. V-cover later if no luck.

TheMountainMan

Ok, rain stopped.
Are there only the 4 acorn nuts to take loose or do the other bolts on the sides need to come out?
I've got the 4 acorns off & it won't move.

bswarm

The washers (under the acorns) on the valvecover are easily removed turning counterclockwise with channel locks. The rubber seals get stuck usually preventing the cover to lift off

TheMountainMan

I wish I would have waited another min for this^^ would've saved me some frustration.
Got starter out in a couple min (the sfa made it very easy), no luck still stuck.
Got v-cover off, found chain & tensioner intact. I gave the bar a few kicks both ways, saw movement then it started turning, seemed to have a tight spot in the rotation for a few turns, could have just been the weather & my lack of stamana.
It's pumping oil very well w/me just turning it over by hand (I could see fresh on dist. gear & cam) I'm going to put a battery on tomorrow, check compression #s, spark & fuel.

Any ideas / thoughts on what could be or been wrong?
Thanks again for the help.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Not to be smart but it is out of gear??

If manual in neutral ??

Same with Automatic in neutral??

Make sure to use chocks to keep the vehicle from leaving.

TheMountainMan

HaHaHa! Actually it was in gear, but only for a couple pulls. In neutral now.

It seemed as if something was in a bind, something wedged in between the chain & gears or dist. gear.


Any ideas, suggestions or thoughts?

Whitfield

Updates? Can't wait to see a few glamor shots of the new runner.

TheMountainMan

Ok I'm not sure what to do now, don't want to dump too much time or $$ is this tired old 22re. 3RZ... or 5.0 swap???

Turned over ok when I put a hot battery in, for a couple 3-5 sec key turns. (sounded like a tired factory 20r starter trying to spin a 12.5:1 440BBC..Almost.)
-So this starter is toast from the PO cranking on it for hours.-

Anywho, the new results are....The SAME!!! What to do?

After the 6-10 sec total of powered cranking, it stuck/seized/locked AGAIN.
Same thing bar on crank, kick backward.. Frees up.
Put compression tester* on & turned manually (by hand) 1, 3 & 4 cyl same #'s, #2 was half.
Turned over manually for a dozen or so rotations... LOCKED AGAIN. Kicked backward.. FREE again & I walked away.

Does any one have any suggestions besides tearing into it?



*Compression tester was missing o-rings thanks to a buddy "Borrowing" them I'm sure. So readings could not have been correct @ 30&15lbs.. I think.

TheMountainMan

From the "research" I've done, I believe it has jumped time.
I had not done my own research before starting this process, thus I didn't know the significance of the t-chain tensioner.
I "misidentified" a chain guide as the tensioner.
I took one person's opinion on the 22re not being an interface engine, now I'm almost sure of the opposite.
So, I'm thinking the sticking/locking was a valve to piston contact issue. What else could it be?
Does this sound feasible?

Can I pull the cam gear, turn crank to tdc & try to line up the cam?

I'm open to any thoughts or suggestions.

Also.. Is the 22re an interference engine or no?

Thanks for your time & any help/input .

msane99

exact same issue. oil pump was bound up. I put a new oil pump, timing chain, water pump in, and had same problem, thought something major had got askew. ripped it apart today and gears inside oil pump (brand new Japan made) had bound up and ate into their aluminum housing.