Hey folks.

Ive been dealing with carb issue for the few weeks now. I've got a 32/36 weber carb (electric choke) on my 22r. I installed this carb new about 2-3 years ago. Its worked great up until this past fall. I didn't really drive the truck too much over this past winter.

I am having zero issues with cold starts. Although while running at high idle It still seems rich as the exhaust has intermittent pops/sputters.
As the truck warms up and reaches operating temperature, the secondary chamber progressively drips more and more gas. as a result it runs like ˟˟˟˟ and eventually floods the intake stalling the engine.
I have confirmed the needle/seat are in fact "seating". I performed a pressure test on it dry and wet. The float measured within spec, but I did go ahead and tweak the adjustment in my favour of being on the leaner side just to see.
That had zero effect.
My mixture screw also has zero effect on the carbs performance at idle. it will run the same screwed all the way in or 2 turned out under these conditions.
I phoned redline earlier today and the man told me if my idle screw was more than 1 1/2 turned out I would also have issues. Its performed fine up until now at 1 1/2 - 2 turns out.. but even at 1 turn out (higher idle-1500rpm) it has no effect on the amount of gas entering the secondary chamber once hot.
I do have a fuel pressure regulator installed and I'm am running just over 2psi. I have double checked my pressure with another gauge just to be sure. It is accurate.
This may be an alternate issue but worth mentioning. I had a relay in the cab making a buzzing noise and my battery charge light illuminated. The relay turned out to be my Auto Choke Relay. I suppose its in need of replacing?
I figured this was a separate issue unrelated to the flooding.. but maybe worth throwing in there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ive really tried my best to cover my bases and read a lot before posting this/troubleshoot, But I am at a loss here.


Thanks a lot.

 

What model year & engine is this? Are you using Ethanol Gas? That stuff isn't good for vehicles that sit beyond 30 days or so, without adding some Sta-Bil or other fuel stabilizer. When is the last time you changed out your rubber fuel hoses & fuel filter?
Good work so far, especially with confirming the fuel pressure. As I'm sure you know, the Weber 32/36 is notorious for not liking fuel pressures above 3 PSI.

In my experience, with any carb, if turning the Idle Mixture Screw has no effect at all on run quality, then the idle circuit isn't working, usually due to an obstruction in the idle passages or idle jet. The idle passages are quite tiny and can easily get clogged up if there is any "trash" in the fuel, fuel tank, fuel lines or fuel filter. It can also happen if the vehicle has been sitting for a period of time. What you're describing here fits that scenario. The engine is trying to run on the secondary jet only, as it's the only fuel passage available. As the engine warms up it needs less fuel at idle, but the secondary jet being a larger bore, it's going to provide more gas than needed for warm idle, causing the flooding & bad engine run quality problems you describe. What a lot of people don't realize is that at engine speeds above idle, the idle circuit doesn't shut "shut off", it continues to flow fuel regardless of engine speed. That combined with the extra flow from the secondary is a calculated, metered flow.

I've had this issue before and here's what I do. Remove idle mixture screw & fuel cutoff solenoid, & make sure I have access to the idle jet itself. I then use a can of carb cleaner with the "red tube" on the can nozzle to spray into each open port several times (usually 3 times), watching the other open ports for cleaner flow. Then let air dry of hit each port with a little compressed air. Reinstall fuel cutoff solenoid & idle mixture screw, resetting mixture screw to 1 & 1/2 turns out as a baseline. Then start the engine & see if this made a difference. In my experience this usually gets it done.

If not then there is another issue or issues. You didn't mention it but is your electric choke working properly? Opening progressively as the engine warms up? Not stuck closed or "sticky" operation in general? It would be a good isea to hit the choke linkages with some carb cleaner.
The buzzing of the Auto Choke Relay - is it part of the circuit that is powering the electric choke? If the contacts inside the relay are worn or pitted it might not be supplying constant voltage to the electric choke. You could bypass this and wire the electric choke to a keyed power source, if you need to.
I asked about Ethanol Fuel & how long since you changed out the fuel hoses & filter for a reason. I've had Ethanol laced gasoline (10%) Ethanol) degrade old fuel hoses on the inside, as they were never made or engineered for this modern fuel. The lines shed rubber particles that ended up in my fuel filter & carb, clogging up the idle passages. I did two clean-outs on the carbs but the idle passages would clog up again with particles, until I changed out every rubber fuel line with line that was Ethanol rated & installed a new fuel filter, & did the carb clean-out 1 more time. Been fine ever since.

 

Wow, Thanks for taking the time to write all that. Appreciate all the info.

Its a 22R engine in an 81' Pickup. Im going to assume there is ethanol in the gas. Or at least a small percentage. Although It may vary by gas station around here. I remember calling one of the local stations a few years back to inquire about the ethanol content in there premium gas. As I wanted ethanol free for an old motorcycle of mine. I guess its no different for this truck as its also carbureted. The gas is no more than 2 months old from what I can remember. But I should try filling the tank with some fresh stuff, maybe add some conditioner as well.
The rubber hoses were new when I installed the brand new carb around 2-3 years ago. They are thick heavy duty black fuel line type hoses. They appear to be holding up well, although I haven't thoroughly inspected the inside. Fuel filter was replaced at the same time. Could use a refresh.
I will have to look at a diagram to figure out which are my idle jets and fuel cut off solenoid.

I had cleaned it up last week and spritz the jets in the inner bowl out. but I'm not sure I hit any of the idle jets.

What I don't understand is the fuel drip in that secondary chamber seems to get increasingly faster as the engine heats up. I was convinced it was a heat soak issue.. and thought maybe the fuel was bowling over. It drips fairly excessively when the intake is on the warmer side. (I guess operating temp) but the base of the carb is not hot to the touch by any means. So I'm not sure a phenolic spacer or cooler thermostat would help me any.

What your explaining definitely makes sense. I will give it a try.
Interesting you mention the electric choke. Because that was the original issue I was dealing with. initially the choke was not engaging when id hit the gas. The butterflies would stay open. This would happen intermittently. I ended up watching a few different YouTube videos on how to adjust it. I marked it with a sharpie prior to adjustment so I still had a baseline to go back to.. I've messed around with it a few times either advancing or retarding it. I'd set it back to the stock position and it seems to be engaging as of late. But again I haven't driven the truck a tonne to really know or have a true day to day test. Part of me wishes I just had a manual choke at times for the simplicity of it. So that issue mixed with now my auto choke solinoide buzzing.. Im not sure any of this is flooding related. But its carb related to who knows.

I think another solid clean, new filter and fresh fuel is a good place to start. I will give that a go and and report back.
Fingers crossed.
Given its sat for an extended period of time, I have a feeling your correct with your assumptions the more I think about it.

 

You're welcome & no problem. Just hoping some of my experiences & info could help you out.

If the gas is regular unleaded from 2 months ago & it was not specifically marked as "Ethanol Free" it most certainly has Ethanol in it. The national industry standard for it is up to 10% Ethanol by volume. Here in Florida, every gas stations' pumps (including "convenience store gas") are tagged with a label that tells you what the percentage is. As I said, Ethanol-laced gas that was pumped more than 30 days ago has already started to oxidize & degrade, & possibly is attracting water from the the humidity in the air. Yep, Ethanol will do that. So it would be a good idea to get some stabilizer into the gas you have in the tank, or putting some fresh gas in there to "boost" it up a bit. Just me but I'd go with the Sta-Bil.

Just to be clear to anyone else that comes along to read this, Ethanol-laced gas isn't a problem for carburetors, IF the supply in the tank is used within 30 days, the carbs gaskets & seals and the vehicles rubber fuel lines are made to withstand Ethanol, & the carb is tuned to the fuel. It may take a slightly richer setting to get the engine to run right, or possibly in some cases lightly larger bore idle & main jets. That last one usually only applies to "higher performance" engine setups. "Normal" engines might only require another 1/4 to 1/2 turn or so on the idle mixture screw, in my experience.

Since you installed the carb brand new & the rubber fuel lines brand new 2-3 years ago, all those parts should be fine. Most carb makers & remanufacturers have been using Ethanol rated gaskets & seals for at least 10 years now (since 2011). Same goes for rubber fuel line manufacturers. The line should be marked either SAE R6/J30 or SEA R9/J30, or even "Ethanol compatible" or similar. The line I bought 6+ years ago to redo my '78 20R was marked that way, so that would be easy to check & verify.
Since you have an "81 I'm assuming that you have the mechanical fuel pump on the cylinder head? How old is the pump? If it was made more than 10 years ago the diaphragm inside may not be Ethanol compatible, & it could also be degrading & shedding particles.
For everyone else out there that has the in-tank electric fuel pump, there is a short piece of rubber fuel line in there, that connects the pump to the metal feedtube. That small piece of line gets easily overlooked & could also be shedding particles.

More info on Ethanol gas & classic vehicles here, for reference: https://www.wheels-alive.co.uk/ethan...sode-of-three/
Here's a link to a website that has a list of gas stations that sell Ethanol-free gas: https://www.pure-gas.org/
Weber 32/36 Diagram & Parts list here: https://www.carburetion.com/diags/3236DGAVDiaginfo.asp

Secondary Fuel Drip - I think you may at least be partially right about the heat soak, but also think it has to do with the engine's vacuum draw on the carb, combined with a blocked idle passage. The carb's aluminum body is a very good heat sink, & will soak up ambient engine compartment heat, & transfer that heat to the fuel in the bowl. Heated fuels will tend to get less viscous (loose some of it's viscosity) so it may flow freer than unheated fuel? Just a bit of a guess on my part. A blocked idle passage will also affect the vacuum balance in the carb, with the carb pulling all vacuum thru the main circuit, instead of just the idle circuit, or both circuits at speeds past idle. More vaccum that expected at the main circuit will pull more fuel than intended or designed for.

Choke - Given that you don't drive the truck very much, it could just be that the choke linkages and/or pivots are just sticky from evaporated fuel. Again, I'd hit all those points with carb cleaner to make sure there isn't any "gum" or "varnish" gumming up the works (pun intended).
As for the relay, I'd just get a new one in there & be done with that. Toyota still sells the Auto Choke Relay, Toyota part # 909870300183. Here's a good online source for them:
https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/...BU;0=RN38L-MSA)
Standard Motor Products, Wells & AC Delco all also make a good aftermarket alternative part. Most parts stores should have them in stock, however after a few quick searches, it looks like they would cost just as much as the OEM part. I always go with OEM parts when I can. After all, yours lasted 41 years.

Looks like you've got a good game plan. Looking forward to hear how it turns out.

 

So I put a fuel conditioner in the 1/3 of the remaining fuel in the tank. Put on a brand new fuel filter as well. Took the top off the carb and cleaned the main jets/bowl. Removed the mixture screw as well as that larger brass screw above that (I believe its mixture related) I forget the name of it. thoroughly sprayed that area with carb cleaner and compresses air. Put it all back together and unfortunately zero change. As soon it its hot that secondary starts dripping. Once I shut it down/it died.. you could hear the fuel gurgling and was actually filing both the primary and secondary this time. It continued to drip and throughly drench things for a good 5-10 mins.
Im at a loss.. I can only suspect a heat soak/boiling fuel issue at this point. But I've never experienced this issue in the past even in summer with hot weather. So its strange a heat issue would be giving me grief now all of a sudden.

 

Well at least now we know for sure it isn't a clogged idle circuit so that's one thing eliminated. Plus the thorough testing you did on the needle & seat & the float level, plus verifying that the fuel pressure was at 2 PSI, pretty much eliminates those items. So I'm thinking it's going to come down to one of two things, or maybe both.

Firstly, I'm starting to lean your way in thinking it's a heat soak issue. The drip starting as soon as it gets hot, audible fuel gurgling sounds, and continuing after shut-down for 5-10 minutes, until things cool off enough does make sense. I don't know exactly how you have this carb installed, but if you used the "double aluminum adapter plate kit" that usually comes with 32/36's intended for 20R's & 22R's, that could be a contributing factor. Earlier you said "... I'm not sure a phenolic spacer or cooler thermostat would help me any." so I assume you only have the 2 aluminum plates in there from Weber's install kit. Those could easily be conducting enough heat from the intake to the carb bowl, enough to boil that fuel in there. The gaskets between the plates may not be enough to stop this from happening. Plus the stock intake manifold does have pretty fair coolant flow running through it, & the heat from that transfers easily to the cast aluminum stock manifold, & then to the carb. The stock 22R carb has a phenolic spacer so I'm sure the Toyota engineers had a reason for it to be there.

Redline/Weber does make a thick spacer for this carb, part # 99005.120. They say it's "hard plastic" & 20 mm thick (0.787" or just over 3/4" thick) but not much else so I don't really know what it's made of. They also have some 5 & 7mm versions.
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/gas..._to_gasket.htm

I also found some actual phenolic spacers on the web searching "Weber 32/36 spacer" & most of them appear to be aftermarket & 5 to 7 mm thick.(about up to 1/4" thick). The Redline part comes with an extra gasket; the aftermarket ones sometimes don't. But installing either of these might help the problem.

Second thought. Is the fuel bowl vent on your carb plugged or open? If it's plugged and the fuel in the bowl is getting heated, that's going to create pressure in the bowl, which could push raw fuel out the way you describe. Here's a pic showing the bowl vent location:

Looking around at a LOT of new 32/36's for sale out there (genuine ones, not knockoffs), I'm seeing a lot of them have a brass plug in this vent, and some just show the hole open with nothing in it. Weber's own pic (above) shows the vent hole with a brass tube in it, which I assume would/should have a piece of fuel line on it going to the charcoal canister to catch any fuel vapor. Granted this could be a minor point, but IMO carbs should have a working bowl vent to function properly.

 

Hi, do you run it with the emissions system?

 

The EGR has been deleted! Though there is still a canister present? Evap canister perhaps? I'm not actually sure. fuel lines tied into it

 

The aluminum plates installed are whatever came with the kit I had purchased from LCE Engineering. (redline)
I believe it is a double plate set up from what I remember.
I suppose I always had a bit of a hard starting issue when hot with this truck. (since the weber was put on) which would likely point to a heat soak/over fueling issue when hot. But its never been even close to as bad as it is now. which is the part that's throwing me off here. I forgot to note in my last update, The mixture screw still has no effect on the idle, even when completely turned In and seated. I guess if fuel is entering through another passage it is still able to run without fuel from the idle circuit. Thought I should note that.

I am going to go ahead and order a phenolic spacer and give that a try. It won't hurt to have on there anyways.
I replaced the thermostat a year or two ago to a 190 degree. I wonder if I should go cooler?

My Fuel bowl vent is capped off with a brass plug on the unused side. opposite side is where the fuel line is entering. If that makes sense? that's how it came and I've never altered anything there.

Thanks a lot for those part # and links btw!

 

No problem. With still no effect on the idle mixture screw regardless of position, that tells me that the carb is definitely trying to run on the main circuit at idle. Since we now know that all the idle passages are clean & unobstructed, I'm beginning to think there might be a problem with the carb's power valve. When one of these goes bad or gets blown out (basically stuck open), it leads to an over-rich condition, which you certainly have going on here. This item also has a rubber diaphragm in it that could be affected by Ethanol fuels Basically the Ethanol could eat holes in the diaphragm, rendering the function of the valve useless, & flowing fuel to the main circuit when it shouldn't be , IF it was made on the old material specs & not designed to handle Ethanol this is what could be happening. You'd have to remove the carb's top in order to get at the part, remove it & inspect the diaphragm for any damage or problems. Info on that here:
https://motofaction.org/mechanical-1...t-power-valve/

If this is your case, it might be a good idea to pull the carb & rebuild it. There are a lot of other rubber parts inside there (accel pump diaphragm & o-rings) that could get affected & continue to lead to more issues. Most 32/36 rebuild kits do not include the power valve but I found a complete kit online here if you need to go this way:
https://www.carburetion.com/products...px?Part=WE-32K

As far as the thermostat goes, from what I know & can find info wise, 190 degrees is the stock thermostat rating for the 22RE (fuel injected). 180 degrees is the stock rating for the 22R (carbureted). There are also a few 192 degrees versions out there but those are for the diesel version of the truck. So you may want to consider replacing that thermostat with a 180 degree.

 

Sorry, forgot to comment on this one. I kept my charcoal canister as it was still functional (determined by air testing) and I wanted to keep it to trap fuel vapor from the tank & the carb bowl (stock carb). The Weber fuel bowl vent is vapor only so any line from that port could go to the charcoal canister. To be clear this is the outlet that is cast into the carb's top cover. The "angled" ports on the Weber 32/36 carb body are liquid fuel inlet & outlet, inlet on driver's side & return line on passenger side.
I would NOT recommend routing the liquid fuel return line to the charcoal canister, but to the return line to the fuel tank, if needed or used.

 

I've ordered a redline spacer (with 2 gaskets). Should arrive in a week or so. I think that will be nice to have reguardless. And should help with hot starts.

I will have a good look at my power valve this weekend. I wouldnt be surprised if the rubber components in there are compromised and thats whats giving me issues. At this point it's probably worth getting a whole rebuild kit and going through everything with fresh stuff.

Will update soon.

 

Got things apart once again. Power valve rubber appears to be fine. No tears or swelling/deterioration.
Seemed like it was holding pressure with my finger over the hole as well.
Spacer should be in next week.

 

Well the spacer did it. Carb is no longer flooding, and staying much cooler. My hot start issues are also no longer present. The saga has ended.

Now i just need to figure out why my charge light stays illuminated until i start driving. Than stays off even at idle.
i think i had mentioned earlier in these post my auto choke relay was making a buzzing noise. I bought a replacement but doesnt seem to make any difference with the charge light. (Battery is fully charged)
perhaps my alternator is on its way out.

 

Good work on the carb spacer, & glad to know those issues have gone.

Charge Light - Just a guess but maybe one of the sets of contacts or coils in your voltage regulator is sticking, or if it's one of the solid state ones (transistorized) perhaps some of the circuitry is getting weak from age & use. I say this due to the symptoms you mention.
I'd start the truck up, make sure the charge light is on, then test the battery with a volt meter to see if it's charging It should be around 13.4 volts when charging, & if the voltage regulator is doing it's thing properly. If not you're going to see around 12 volts, likely not over 12.7.
Then measure again when the light goes out & compare numbers.
Or you can pull the voltage regulator & have it tested at a parts shop.

If you do need to replace it, here's some of the available units: https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...regulator,4884
Just be sure you match up the main plug. There are two different plugs used for your year of truck. One is oval with 5 pins, the other has a round plug with 6 pins.