tc

Molly's do OK - but hers are the larger V6 ones.

drew303

People usually put the calipers from an IFS rig on the old yota axles so you can fit the vented rotors and just better brakes.

I snapped.. well no it exploded.. my first CV axle yesterday afternoon. BAM! what an awesome noise ! haha, I couldn't stop laughing. Of all the crap I put my truck through I finally snapped an axle. Good times.

Anyways, something to think about to is if you run a stock yoter axle the birfs are a weak link and break pretty easily (mainly when you're articulated and turning hard). Which is same for IFS (I was fully articulated and wheels cranked) Got some wheel hop and BAM the housing around the lower CV just exploded.

My 85 front axle is going to sit next to my shed probably for a few more years. I did my research indepth and planned out exactly how I want to SAS my rig and the cheapest I budgeted was around $3500 and thats me doing ALL the work.

I figure it's better to wait (save the $$$) and do it RIGHT than half ass it now. Besides.. I'd like to get my rig squared away as is first, get rid of the bed, flatbed, armor and do other stuff that will just make it more capable than it already is then all that will be left is SAS'ing it.

REALISTICALLY I don't crawl Moab or the Rubicon or climb rock walls. I take it to the woods occasionally and have a good time.

tc

So, lemme guess, it was muddy and you were having to get on it pretty hard to keep momentum as the wheels came off the ground since you're not locked (TruTrac in the rear only, right?), got to bouncing and SNAP.

A front locker would have prevented that.

First, you wouldn't have had to goose it so much to start with, and second, when the wheel came off the ground, it wouldn't spin up like it does with an open diff.

If you have decent CV angles, it's pretty amazing how much abuse they will take - as much as a stock Birf for sure!

CanTheWhales

Not to start another thread or anything, but I think I read somewhere that they're actually stronger, they are just never used to the extent to compare...




Also, for the original poster, Lock first and SAS later... I think you've got the right idea and there's pleanty of people here to tell you that... just make sure you document what you do and post up some pictures along the way...

Adawg_08

the funny thing is everybody here said to lock, then SAS.

Everybody on Pirate said SAS then lock and add parts when needed.

d0ubledown

thats because they (pirate) would probably tell you to swap the axle, then weld your diff(s). then add new parts as you break em. its what i'd do...

Elvota

That's because on Pirate they assume you'll be taking out all the glass, saw-zalling out your fenders for 44's and not worrying anything about your body. Not a bad thing... just a different way to look at the end goal.

By the way, if you are planning on doing all of the above to your rig eventually... then I change my opinion. SAS first, then as you hammer through harder and harder trails fully open, just replace things that fall off that stop the vehicle. Put the rest in a big bag and leave out for recycling.

Adawg_08

I was thinking Rears Up Front,
but I read the FAQ on Pirate and decided not to. To much money.

What if I use stock front springs and throw in a couple rear leafs to get an 1" or 2"? They would flex even worse wouldn't they? Now that I think about it maybe just stock front springs will be good.

I don't want a crazy amount of lift. Just 1"-3". I get 1" with just the new hangers and shackles right? Is that just 1" out of the front hanger? What happens when you put the longer shackles on there?

With just stock springs I can use IFS shaft, correct?
What can I do about shock mounts and shocks? Use the IFS mounts?

Elvota

I'll assume you are taking about doing a SAS. Not sure why you got the impression that using rear springs in the front cost so much money. Most people pick up the rear springs for next to nothing at a local salvage or from Craig's list. Generally speaking, rears in front will not work directly with available SAS kits and will require the installer to mount hanger and shackle in the correct position. Maybe your reference to cost was regarding the custom fab necessary to install them.

More leaves usually means a stiffer spring pack which generally equals less flex. What are you referring to with "stock springs"? You mean the "stock springs" that come on the front of a pre '86 Toyota? Factory straight axle Toyotas? See below.

1" with hangers as compared to what.... IFS? Factory straight axle spring mounts? It's smart to keep it as low as possible, but if to low you can run into steering link clearance issues when things start to flex. Not to mention tire to fender problems... but I am sure you are already aware of that. I think most SAS kits are in the 4" range which in my opinion is acceptable height and will let your steering and at least 35's clear without a problem. Anything lower is really going to require some fab work and sheetmetal removal. Not necessarily bad, but I don't know your level of experience or the amount of time you are prepared to put into the project.

Shackle length divided by 1/2" will give you actual lift. Example... 4" shackle, 2" of lift. Don't forget longer or shorter shackles in the front will start to alter you caster degree. To much in either direction can lead to handling problems and may bring about the dreaded "Death Wobble" (search that term)

I would be very doubtful of this. In fact, I'd go as far as saying no way on earth. Take a look at a solid front axle. Notice how the diff is on the PS.. not centered. Now, imagine when the axle flexes up on the DS. This really causes the diff to move forward a great deal, as well as down. Thus the need for a long slip front DS. You can cheat (and stay cheap) with a trailer stock or square front DS. Search for it... and you will find the answer. Oh, and IFS CV's do not have very much articulation in terms of degrees. They can be modified to get better movement, but the factory never needed them to move like a straight axle... so they didn't care.

Use the IFS mounts for the SAS shocks?? I think you really need to do a little more research into what a SAS will require. All the IFS stuff will be cut out... including where the shocks where mounted. Not to mention how incredibly short they are. Most kits will come with a shock mount that needs to be welded to the frame. Ford makes a shock tower as well that many use because it is cheap.

I'd suggest reading a bit more about SAS before breaking out your wallet and torch. If this will be your first big fab project, I think you'd find a SAS kit from Marlin, TG, AllPro or even Sky will really save you a lot of headaches. Also keep in mind that many of those guys on Pirate (and several here on YT) consider a SAS a afternoon job with eyes closed and one hand behind their back. Sometimes fabrication takes a great deal of effort... especially if you are new to it.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

SAS kits are there for a reason...to take the majority of the fab work and guess work out of doing a SAS. Sure, they cost more, but so does anything that does most of the work for you. I'd be happy to talk to you about a SAS kit as we have lots of options. Shoot me an email.

IFS CVs are about 23 degrees of motion and SFA CVs are about 45 degrees IIRC.

AxleIke

Good grief!!!

Did you actually READ anything on Pirate about SAS's or did you simply just ask if you should SAS or locker?

It sounds like you want to SAS, but haven't done this before? If you do not want to buy a kit, then forget doing a SAS for the moment. Next purchase should then be a full membership at Pirate, and then start doing some research. From the sounds of your questions, you need to understand the basics of leaf sprung axle dynamics, and Toyota components.

In order to have a truck that can drive on the highway safely, and not kill you or anyone else, you need to get it right.

Keep this in mind. 95% or so of people who SAS, do so with a purchased kit. Quite a few of those who do SAS with a kit STILL END UP WITH DEATHWOBBLE. This is becasue, while the kits are magnificent, they still require an understanding of how these trucks work, and how changing the truck's suspension and drivetrain affects the overall driveablility. Most ignore that part, and the unlucky slap the kit on and then end up with a truck that shakes uncontrolably at 40 mph.

Research, then come back with questions.

Adawg_08

I read a lot of the stuff. I spent 2 hours last night on just REARS UP FRONT FAQ. All 10 pages. The only SAS instructions I found are on Trail-Gear site.

I was going to help with the SAS but I know a couple people who really know what they are doing.
They swap 4wd in a 2wd in an afternoon.

I don't really need 4" of lift. If I just throw most of the stock 85 stuff on there I will be 1" above stock. (With new front hangers) I can probaly get a stock drive shaft from 85 or older.

For now I will get some El-cheapo Autozone chocks that are long. A bunch of my friends have full size broncos and I'm sure they can hook me up with some shock mounts.

Then I can get 3" springs and High Steer.

yotasavg

that's because on pirate if you have no SFA, you're not "cool".
i say lock then sas too. you're keeping rear axle anyways. it's not something that you'll only use for a while...

Adawg_08

Well, for now it's off to some wheelin'

I'll get some pics to show off my MAD FLEX. actually on the trail the IFS doesn't flex well if you just pull up on to something but I got it into a situation where the whole front end was creaking and snapping
Just because it was probaly never moved like that in 20 years
I wish I could have got a pic of something because it was flexed good for IFS w/ sway bar.

I guess I will keep the IFS for now. Get a rear locker, I could really use one of those.

But...







































I will save for the SAS from trail gear. It's really a good buy.
Look at all of the stuff you get. Enough to get a badda$$ front end.
It's better than doing it half a$$ like I thought about.