RAD4Runner

Yeah that must be the ADDED starter relay

Make sure:
1) Either (ONLY one of them) Pin 30 or pin 87 is always connected to the battery through a fused line.
2) Relay is wired like below (pins 30 and 87 are interchangeable):

Chico

Hey guys, a lot of great information here about the factory mis-wire. I just need a little clarification please.

To test if my factory wiring is INCORRECT, when I measure the large black wire (for supply voltage to the starter solenoid) on my factory harness (which plugs into the starter relay), I should have a voltage reading of ZERO volts with the ignition key in the run position, correct? Additionally, there should be little if any resistance between the two black wires (constant for starter solenoid and signal for starter relay) when wired INCORRECTLY. Is this correct?

I simply want to make sure I'm testing using the correct method before I cut my wires. A previous picture and instructions stated that I should have +12V DC at the black wire, but that would indicate the wiring is not faulty if I understand correctly.

Thank you.

BlackPearl808

Anyone change out their ignition switch? I re-routed my existing starter relay years ago and though it fires the starter up, recently I think that the switch (essentially the "incorrect" factory wiring) has worn out to the point that it wasn't sending voltage to the COR that powers the fuel pump. I wonder at what point the ignition switch fails, mileage or age-wise so that you get the intermittent no start. I'm still learning about electronics and no expert but, are electrical components like ignition switches supposed to last 30+ years? Did the engineer that designed this system really think that decades later there will be a group of dudes connected through this thing called the internet discussing relays and kill switches?

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

These last two questions are kind of related.




If you do a voltage drop test across the ignition switch and get a none zero reading the switch could use a rehab.

measuring voltage across pin 4 to pin 1 and pin 4 to pin 2 a "dirty" contact will show a non-zero voltage when loaded (held in the start position).


Pin 1 (st1) feeds the starter & coldstart
Pin 2 (ig1) feeds the clutch start cancel (which in turn may feed the starter relay)

Somewhere around here are photos of the ignition switch, it's a simple reed connection which can be cleaned and polished.

Paul22RE

In my 92, the factory starter relay is in the fuse block under the hood. Does this mean my truck is not affected by this issue of solenoid not getting enough juice or high amps flowing through ignition switch?

RAD4Runner

Hi Chico,
Sorry, I find it hard to see words. Pls use graphics.
A picture paints a thousand words. I took the time to share info that way. You could, too.
Start with this and tell us exactly what you see, measure at every point I specify. NOTE FINDINGS ON THE PICTURE INSTEAD OF USING WORDS SO WE ARE EXACTLY CLEAR.

RAD4Runner

Schematic of DallasTX's 1992 shows starter relay as wired properly.
I would trust but verify. Find a clearer schematic that matches wire colors to your relay. Verify that what looks like pin 4 to me always has 12V even if ignition switch is in OFF position.

Paul22RE

This diagram is from autozone. So, in this diagram, the BLK/WHT wire at the relay should have 12V all the time if relay is wired correctly?

scope103

Well, I don't find the same diagram at https://www.autozone.com/repairinfo/...00c1528006093b . And you don't show the battery connections the way you've cropped the drawing.

But in my truck the ignition switch switches battery, so the BLK in your drawing would have battery (12.6v or so) only when the ignition switch was set to start. B-R is grounded through the clutch start switch, so battery on B closes the starter relay, connecting the starter solenoid (through B-W) to battery.

But worse, your drawing shows the starter solenoid powered THROUGH the ignition switch. This defeats the purpose of the starter relay. (I haven't followed Rad4Runner's criticism of the wiring of the early trucks closely enough, but perhaps this is the defect he has found.)

RAD4Runner

Correct, Scope. That is the problem with the starter relay wiring I am talking about. It affects many model-years but some schematics show correct wiring. Below is wiring for 1990-1995 4Runner. It shows correct wiring of starter relay contacts. However, schematic does not guaranty that truck was wired correctly as built. The best way is to verify.

NO.
1) The BLK wire that connects to the relay contact should always have 12V. This should directly connected to battery via a fuse - as in 1990-1995 4Runner schematic* below.
2) The BLK wire that connects to the relay coil should ONLY have 12V when IG SW is in Start position.
3) The BLK-Red should only have ground if clutch is depressed far enough or IF clutch safety cancel is activated.
4) BLK-WHT should only have 12V when starter relay clicks (contact closes)
*schematic showing correct wiring does not guarantee that truck was wired​​​​​ correctly at the factory

Paul22RE

Sounds like it's easy to check, basically I should have 12V at one of those 4 contacts with ignition off. If I have no juice at any contact with ignition off, I can assume my relay isn't wired correctly. Will pull the relay and see what I find with the meter on those 4 contacts, thanks!

RAD4Runner

Absolutely correct, Paul. Pls share pics of your fuse/relay block with and witjout relay and where each color wire goes for everybody's future reference. I can annotate and add to orig post for clarity.

Paul22RE

On my 92, the starter relay is in the fuse block under the hood, I confirmed I do have 12V constant (hot all the time) on PIN 5. I was unable to see what color wire goes to that pin, I need to get a dentist mirror. Sorry for the large pics!

Tims86Toy

Inspection mirrors are also used in the HVAC industry. So check your local HVAC supply house. Then you can use your phone to take a picture in the mirror. I couldn't live without one.

Gevo

Rad4Runner... Today I dove into this issue for my 1991 4Runner 3vze. I definitely have a different case from anything I have seen thus far, as far as I understand it. I chronicled my process in my build thread here ( https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post52436248 ) I would appreciate if you can look into my situation and give any advice you may have. I show the schematics I use and it does NOT have the design flaw of using the starter switch to run the high voltage through. However, you will find that there is a large voltage drop at my starter solenoid and other weirdeties I struggled to understand. If you take a look and want to post your findings here that's fine, it will be more helpful to be in this thread for future users

Thanks!

EDIT: I wish I found this thread few hours ago, for some reason it wasn't coming up in my searches! I ended up using your build thread a bit for some information. Post 30 in this thread has the wiring diagram I finally found in the FSM i downloaded from that utulsa.edu page when it was available some time ago.

RAD4Runner

Starter direct bumps flawlessly.
RAD: Verify that connecting this directly to battery also consistently cranks. That means starter motor and solenoid contacts are good.So I'm leaning toward the ignition switch going out?
RAD: Not likely but the wrong wiring from the factory is bad for the ignition switch.
Also I couldn't ever get 12v at the black wire across from the red/blk at my starter relay plug when key set to ACC.
RAD: That confirms that the starter relay is wired wrong from the factory, as I explain here:Are there any draw backs to running & fusing 12v directly to that black wire at the starter relay plug like in your posts?
RAD: Yes. Very unlikely to happen, as I explain on my post, however, WHEN THE 5TART3R RELAY IS WIRED CORRECTLY SIMILAR TO LATER MODELS, IN THE UNLIKELY* EVENT THAT THE CONTACTS CLOSE* OR SHORT* FOR SOME REASON THE 5TART3R WILL CRANK EVEN WITHOUT IGN1T1ON_SW1TCH BEING TURNED ON. IF PARKED IN FIRST GEAR, TRUCK MAY MOVE AND CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. A K1LL SW1TCH BETWEEN THE FUSE AND THE RELAY PIN 4 IS HIGHLY-RECOMMENDED. JUST KEEP WIRE RUN TO MINIMUMAND DO NOT TELL US WHERE YOU PUT THE KILL SWITCH - LOL!

I turn all my own wrenches but electricity isn't my thing..
Thanks for any help!
RAD: Happy to help. I hope you and loved ones stay well[/QUOTE]

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

ray, just completed the rewire on my white ‘87 4runner, after verifying no power to pin 4 and no continuity between 3 & 4. took about 2 hours to complete. truck starts just fine afterwards. did not have a starting issue, just wanted to fix it before i did. the red ‘87 has been working flawlessly after the fix 5 or 6 years ago.

Koliah808

This is gonna be a long one! Any help is greatly appreciated.
So I have a 88 Toyota Pickup with a brand new rebuilt 22r in my engine bay.




I’m trying to get my starter wired and I’ve been reading through this thread and watched a couple of YouTube videos. Here is my research put into testing. I will also provide some pictures to help explain.
First off -
I can’t seem to find my starter relay in the engine bay. I’m sure my ignition isn’t working and I’m fine with wiring a new starter relay in then creating my own switch to run to the cab. I also don’t have the STARTER SIGNAL WIRE. Which I’m guessing is tied into the key ignition which will switch the starter on.
I first went off of this video.
I then ran into the problem that I didn’t have the STARTER SIGNAL WIRE


Starter signal wire shown in the video I went off of.


Here is my engine block. Is this where that starter signal wire is supposed to be?? And that is TYPICALLY supposed to connect to my starter solenoid correct? I also did try to bring a female connector with a 12 gauge wire to the “S” on the relay. But that didn’t seem to work

As of now, my plan is to re-do this setup with this relay and then go off of the “S” on the relay and wire it to a switch. (Is that what my “S” is for on the relay?)

Here is it wired for TESTING purposes following the video.
I think I used 6 and 8 gauge wire for these. I got this relay off of amazon and honestly, the screws seem abit worn and are REALLY loose. So I may need to get a NEW one to accurately test with this method of wiring again.

Now -
Here is another alternate route I took to try and get the starter cranking. Which I did end up being successful in. (Cranking and almost getting the engine to completely turn over. Just wasn’t getting any fuel into the carb) But........ I’m guessing my wire was too thin or I miswired something soooooo my wire melted
Heres the story.

So I just to the store and bought a regular 40A relay with 30,85,86, & 87. I then began to wire my relay to a switch.

Here is that relay wired.



86 connected from relay into my switch

So 30 (WHITE) is wired from my battery + into the relay (was fused with a 30A fuse)
86 (PINK) is wired to my switch
87 (PINK) is connected to my solenoid and jumped into my screw on the starter
85 (GREEN) is grounded to my engine block.
I also have another wire connected from my + on the battery to my switch. (No photos of the switch sorry)


Here is the relay (THE RELAY FLOATING) rewired after abandoning the previous wire attempt from above in the post (everything is disconnected from previous wire attempt.. I just have it sitting in the bay) My other relay screwed there is for an electronic fuel pump. It is wired the same way and it seems to work no problem. Both positives from the battery to the switch and relay are fused w/ 30A fuses.

Here is how I wired it from the starter. I only jumped the solenoid (pink) and the screw terminal (white) because of previous knowledge of the video I linked above. (Is this correct?) you can see I crimped them together. If not, how should I go about wiring this?

I can’t seem to find the STARTER RELAY found in this picture and thread. Yes I read through it..

Also can’t even seem to find these wires and connections in my bay at all. I’ll post a photo below showing the only wires that I do have.

Here are the only wires I have in my bay. Where do these connect and what are they for?

PROBLEMS IM HAVING:
1. Fuse to my switch always blows in the inline fuse after I touch my ground terminal to my ground on the battery. I rewired a couple times and blew a good number of fuses. Why? (Is this because of the jump on the starter)?
2. I went in the next day after these photos were taken and then rewired 30 WITH NO FUSE (on accident) flipped my switch and melted my 30 wire right into the relay. But.... the engine was cranking and just about to start. I just wasn’t getting any fuel into the carb for it to go. As I’ve mentioned before..



Isn’t she beautiful? Sad !


Lesson learned..
So my conclusions and questions I have are.
1.Do I need those bigger 6 and 8 gauge wires like wires before? Or do I have my starter wired wrong anyways?

2. If I use those bigger gauge wires, how can I run it into a female connector onto a regular 30A relay like this? They don’t make any 6/8 gauge female connectors that are 1/4” do they? Hahahaha.

Also, does that mean I need to go back to the first route? With that different model RED relay and then just run my “S” on the RED relay (in the photo above) to a switch. My only thing that confuses me with that RED relay is there is no 85,86,87 and 30 that I am more familiar with.

Also not getting any fuel to my fuel pump like I said but when I turn it on from the switch it keeps ticking loudly like it is on. Do I just need a new fuel regulator? That’s for another thread.......

But big thanks to RAD4RUNNER for all the info in previous threads. I literally just made this account to reply on this thread and get some answers. Any help would be huge. I try to work on this guy about everyday after work. I am pretty active so I reply if there are any responses.

Gevo

Welcome to the forums!

OK< to be honest I had a difficult time trying to follow how you wired to the starter and starter solenoid. From this picture I think I can tell you what your problem is. That black wire, going to one of the solenoid CONTACTS, the one with the threaded stud, needs to be a much larger wire. 4 gauge I think. Looks like you have a 14 or 12 gauge there. Look at that very short blue wire that comes out of the other side of the solenoid, you need to match that or bigger. The starter pulls in a lot of current. The solenoid much less.

Koliah808

Ok I understand what you’re saying to upsize my wire, so the two wires going to my starter are crimped together right now onto one wire and then placed into #87 on my relay. Now I will just jump my solenoid to my threaded stud now and then just run a single thick 4 gauge wire to where now? Back to 87? I have no way of connecting it. I may just go to the original method I posted first of wiring. But then again, what do I do now without the starter signal wire?