HELP: starter not activating, solenoid clicks
10-20-2016, 10:36 AM
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HELP: starter not activating, solenoid clicks
So this was an intermittent problem for me for about a month. Each time in the past I would wait a minute and try again with a successful start
then last Thursday (in the garage luckily) I turned the key and heard the click, with no good outcome
This Truck is an 86 4x4 with automatic transmission
I bought a starter, foolishly thinking the solenoid had failed and didn't bother to test anything
guess what, the new starter didn't work either
I began testing things and found that the solenoid wire was only sending 11.6V when the key was in the start position
when I jump a 12.5V battery wire directly to the solenoid it cranks as it should
So I started tracing the wire circuit to see where I was loosing voltage
I discovered that the automatic truck has a neutral safety switch on the transmission
I tested and found it also was only receiving 11.6V at the switch wire
next I pulled the ignition switch
at the switch wiring, both of the power wires are registering 12.4V
when the key is turned to the run position, that voltage drops immediately to 11.6V
and in the start position it remains at the 11.6V reading.
so I'm leaning towards a circuit in the "run" position is putting enough draw on the battery to decrease the necessary 12V's from getting to the solenoid
oddly, and this may be a clue that I'm not smart enough to figure out: when I disconnect the starter switch entirely and jump a 12V battery source to the solenoid wire as it exits the ignition switch, I still get the "click" without exciting the solenoid.
my first question:
what all is in the pathway of the solenoid wire at the switch?
I've discovered it goes through the neutral safety switch at the transmission
I've discovered it goes through a relay behind the glove box that clicks each time I apply power to that wire
is there any other system that it goes though I should be checking, and is there a way to test each of these items its passes though?
My second theory is still that something in the run circuit might be lowering the voltage before I engage the start position on the switch.
but weird that a direct 12V source to the solenoid circuit applied at the wire to the switch isn't exciting the solenoid
do I have 2 problems?
thanks for any help or tips
I'm pretty stuck and don't want to just buy more components (like I did the starter)
I don't know if there is a common failure point/component on these trucks I should be checking first?
brant
then last Thursday (in the garage luckily) I turned the key and heard the click, with no good outcome
This Truck is an 86 4x4 with automatic transmission
I bought a starter, foolishly thinking the solenoid had failed and didn't bother to test anything
guess what, the new starter didn't work either
I began testing things and found that the solenoid wire was only sending 11.6V when the key was in the start position
when I jump a 12.5V battery wire directly to the solenoid it cranks as it should
So I started tracing the wire circuit to see where I was loosing voltage
I discovered that the automatic truck has a neutral safety switch on the transmission
I tested and found it also was only receiving 11.6V at the switch wire
next I pulled the ignition switch
at the switch wiring, both of the power wires are registering 12.4V
when the key is turned to the run position, that voltage drops immediately to 11.6V
and in the start position it remains at the 11.6V reading.
so I'm leaning towards a circuit in the "run" position is putting enough draw on the battery to decrease the necessary 12V's from getting to the solenoid
oddly, and this may be a clue that I'm not smart enough to figure out: when I disconnect the starter switch entirely and jump a 12V battery source to the solenoid wire as it exits the ignition switch, I still get the "click" without exciting the solenoid.
my first question:
what all is in the pathway of the solenoid wire at the switch?
I've discovered it goes through the neutral safety switch at the transmission
I've discovered it goes through a relay behind the glove box that clicks each time I apply power to that wire
is there any other system that it goes though I should be checking, and is there a way to test each of these items its passes though?
My second theory is still that something in the run circuit might be lowering the voltage before I engage the start position on the switch.
but weird that a direct 12V source to the solenoid circuit applied at the wire to the switch isn't exciting the solenoid
do I have 2 problems?
thanks for any help or tips
I'm pretty stuck and don't want to just buy more components (like I did the starter)
I don't know if there is a common failure point/component on these trucks I should be checking first?
brant
Last edited by brant914; 10-20-2016 at 11:12 AM.
10-20-2016, 01:44 PM
#2
Then it just might be a poor ground
These have the full starting voltage running through the ignition switch line loss might be your problem there is a fix floating around using a relay to go direct from the battery to the solenoid .
You might be hearing the Circuit opening relay by the glove box not in the starting circuit
The wire goes from the neutral safety switch to the solenoid
These have the full starting voltage running through the ignition switch line loss might be your problem there is a fix floating around using a relay to go direct from the battery to the solenoid .
You might be hearing the Circuit opening relay by the glove box not in the starting circuit
The wire goes from the neutral safety switch to the solenoid
10-20-2016, 02:29 PM
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Then it just might be a poor ground
These have the full starting voltage running through the ignition switch line loss might be your problem there is a fix floating around using a relay to go direct from the battery to the solenoid .
You might be hearing the Circuit opening relay by the glove box not in the starting circuit
The wire goes from the neutral safety switch to the solenoid
These have the full starting voltage running through the ignition switch line loss might be your problem there is a fix floating around using a relay to go direct from the battery to the solenoid .
You might be hearing the Circuit opening relay by the glove box not in the starting circuit
The wire goes from the neutral safety switch to the solenoid
thank you a ton.
so the click I hear under the glove box is coming from what looks and sounds like a relay, is mounted to the sidewall just above the ECU
it has print on it that says "Circuit xxx something" I will look it up in the FSM and try to trace it in the wire diagrams
good to know it may not be a starting relay
weird that it clicks only when the key is in the "start" position
but you have given me great info to explore
is there any particular grounds I should clean/check
I've cleaned the battery ground and motor to firewall ground
but I bet I have missed some under the dash that I can look for
I thought I might jump the neutral safety switch wires, to eliminate it from the system for testing purposes.
thanks again
brant
10-20-2016, 03:01 PM
#4
Venture on over to the user "rad4runner"'s build page. He has an entire section on fixing problems like this. Dozens of us, including myself, have followed his simple rewiring fix, and got rid of the interment click issue. It is some sort of wiring issue that degrades with the age of the truck, creating that voltage drop. There is a simply splice you can do to run a 12v direct line from the battery to the starter relay just behind the battery (on the inner fender). When the relay activate with the new wiring in place, it sends a direct clean 12v to the starter. I too replaced a starter foolishly before stumbling upon all this great information. All it takes is a foot of wire, an inline fuse, and some crimping (or soldering).
My truck has never been so reliable with consistent cranks since this simple fix. It removed all random single clicks that came and went, and spastic cranking (that almost seemed like the flywheel was missing a tooth).
Do some reading, see if the wiring issue applies to your truck and if so do the modification:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...0/index33.html
.
My truck has never been so reliable with consistent cranks since this simple fix. It removed all random single clicks that came and went, and spastic cranking (that almost seemed like the flywheel was missing a tooth).
Do some reading, see if the wiring issue applies to your truck and if so do the modification:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...0/index33.html
.
Last edited by 89fourrunner; 10-20-2016 at 03:08 PM.
10-20-2016, 06:11 PM
#5
Funny I have the goodies sitting in a box to do this modification never had the problem
Your 2 main grounds coming off the battery one goes to the block one goes to the inner fender
Remember the starter grounds through the bolts and the fit of the nose in the bell housing .So you want a good clean tight connection on both ends
If the ground cables have never been changed might be time to consider it
Another thing quite possible you just got a poor quality rebuilt starter much better to rebuild your original starter but time is often a factor
Your 2 main grounds coming off the battery one goes to the block one goes to the inner fender
Remember the starter grounds through the bolts and the fit of the nose in the bell housing .So you want a good clean tight connection on both ends
If the ground cables have never been changed might be time to consider it
Another thing quite possible you just got a poor quality rebuilt starter much better to rebuild your original starter but time is often a factor
10-20-2016, 10:13 PM
#6
OP,
Toyota rarely ever messed up but it did the design of the cranking system. You would need to add a starter relay. Direct Link Is Here.
GO directly to where it applies to your automatic.
Should not cost you more than $20.
You should also inspect/clean your neutral safety switch; the high current (approx 10 Amps) needed to energize the starter solenoid may have messed up the contacts.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 10-22-2016 at 09:31 PM.
10-21-2016, 09:14 AM
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Venture on over to the user "rad4runner"'s build page. He has an entire section on fixing problems like this. Dozens of us, including myself, have followed his simple rewiring fix, and got rid of the interment click issue. It is some sort of wiring issue that degrades with the age of the truck, creating that voltage drop. There is a simply splice you can do to run a 12v direct line from the battery to the starter relay just behind the battery (on the inner fender). When the relay activate with the new wiring in place, it sends a direct clean 12v to the starter. I too replaced a starter foolishly before stumbling upon all this great information. All it takes is a foot of wire, an inline fuse, and some crimping (or soldering).
My truck has never been so reliable with consistent cranks since this simple fix. It removed all random single clicks that came and went, and spastic cranking (that almost seemed like the flywheel was missing a tooth).
Do some reading, see if the wiring issue applies to your truck and if so do the modification:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...0/index33.html
.
My truck has never been so reliable with consistent cranks since this simple fix. It removed all random single clicks that came and went, and spastic cranking (that almost seemed like the flywheel was missing a tooth).
Do some reading, see if the wiring issue applies to your truck and if so do the modification:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...0/index33.html
.
thank you a ton
and thanks to Rad4runner too...
I will work on this idea tonight!
(last night in the garage I made some progress, ruled some things out... but found no smoking guns)
brant
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10-21-2016, 09:17 AM
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Tnx for the vote of confidence.
OP,
Toyota rarely ever messed up but it did the design of the cranking system. You would need to add a starter relay. The direct link is here. GO directly to where it applies to your automatic.
Should not cost you more than $20.
You should also inspect/clean your neutral safety switch; the high current (approx 10 Amps) needed to energize the starter solenoid may have messed up the contacts.
OP,
Toyota rarely ever messed up but it did the design of the cranking system. You would need to add a starter relay. The direct link is here. GO directly to where it applies to your automatic.
Should not cost you more than $20.
You should also inspect/clean your neutral safety switch; the high current (approx 10 Amps) needed to energize the starter solenoid may have messed up the contacts.
where did you buy the solenoid?
I will read the thread now and see if you have already answered that question
I by-passed the neutral safety switch last night on my truck and tested that the by-pass did up the voltage to the solenoid by .5V.... but still has the click problem
so I feel like that was not the smoking gun and I need to read the full thread thread about the relay
thanks
brant
10-21-2016, 09:39 AM
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Your link for the automatic version of this problem is bad
any way you can fix or help me out with the link
I verified last night that I don't have a starter relay
(FSM said automatics didn't as you already know.... I just verified)
so I'd still like to try the relay fix
I just want to make sure I do it right since mine is an automatic
thanks
brant
any way you can fix or help me out with the link
I verified last night that I don't have a starter relay
(FSM said automatics didn't as you already know.... I just verified)
so I'd still like to try the relay fix
I just want to make sure I do it right since mine is an automatic
thanks
brant
10-22-2016, 09:41 PM
#10
Most welcome.
I updated link above and it's also here.
I already have a starter relay on mine. I simply rewired it.
For yours, you can use a multi-purpose 30-amp automotive relay. I measured that that relay will carry around12 amps to energize the starter solenoid.
The problem includes all that long wiring and possibly tired ST1 contact of the ignition switch, as I explained in above.
To completely bypass the poorly-designed wiring and the neutral safety switch:
1) MAKE SURE YOU ARE ARE REALLY IN NEUTRAL,
2) Disconnect the wire from this terminal on the starter solenoid,
3) Connect that terminal on the starter solenoid directly to battery positive.
Above should make your starter solenoid crank click energetically and you should get a crank.
I starter solenoid clicks energetically but you still do not get a crank, your solenoid contacts must be bad or other part of starter motor is bad.
If you want to be able to do above while at wheel to operate the ignition switch, make this setup
ld also use it to temporarily help with cranking until you can get your added relay.
I updated link above and it's also here.
I already have a starter relay on mine. I simply rewired it.
For yours, you can use a multi-purpose 30-amp automotive relay. I measured that that relay will carry around12 amps to energize the starter solenoid.
I by-passed the neutral safety switch last night on my truck and tested that the by-pass did up the voltage to the solenoid by .5V.... but still has the click problem...
To completely bypass the poorly-designed wiring and the neutral safety switch:
1) MAKE SURE YOU ARE ARE REALLY IN NEUTRAL,
2) Disconnect the wire from this terminal on the starter solenoid,
3) Connect that terminal on the starter solenoid directly to battery positive.
Above should make your starter solenoid crank click energetically and you should get a crank.
I starter solenoid clicks energetically but you still do not get a crank, your solenoid contacts must be bad or other part of starter motor is bad.
If you want to be able to do above while at wheel to operate the ignition switch, make this setup
ld also use it to temporarily help with cranking until you can get your added relay.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 10-22-2016 at 09:46 PM.
10-22-2016, 10:30 PM
#11
Sorry... Looking back at original post... These two are contradicting:
Does 12V directly from battery to solenoid coil positive terminal (in picture I posted) energize the solenoid or not?
power to energize starter solenoid runs from battery through:
Fuses in fuse block
ST1 contacts of IGN sw
Loong wire to neutral safety switch
to starter solenoid.
A loong path
In ideal circuit (after starter relay is added and wire properly), power to energize solenoid will run from battery, through fuse (near battery), through relay (near battery) contacts, though only about 2 feet of wire, to starter solenoid.
weird that a direct 12V source to the solenoid circuit applied at the wire to the switch isn't exciting the solenoid
do I have 2 problems?
do I have 2 problems?
what all is in the pathway of the solenoid wire at the switch?
Fuses in fuse block
ST1 contacts of IGN sw
Loong wire to neutral safety switch
to starter solenoid.
A loong path
In ideal circuit (after starter relay is added and wire properly), power to energize solenoid will run from battery, through fuse (near battery), through relay (near battery) contacts, though only about 2 feet of wire, to starter solenoid.
