Yota82

From my long travel experence, Total Chaos, JD, ESB Fabrications (no longer in business) has/had the best products. Like someone said eariler, Downey has proven themselves to be behind the curve with IFS suspension innovations. If you read about the actual product there are a couple things that just aren't true. The first thing that was stated on their website that I disagree with is the use of balljoints over uniballs. Downey refered to uniballs as "perishable" and while that is true, they are not as perishable as a balljoint and are downright stronger than a balljoint. The second thing that was stated was that Downey uses stock steering because heims are also "perishable". It is just simply not true. When it all comes down to it, coilovers are way more reliable than torsion bars, heims are stronger and don't bind as much as tie rods, uniballs are a lot stronger than BJs and will not bind/pull apart like a BJ in the increased travel. The Downey kit uses all 3 of the weak points of a well built IFS system for about the same price as a kit that is proven to be reliable like TC. I wouldn't recommend buying the Downey kit.

FredTJ

Thrust me, I'm WELL versed with solid axles, front and rear, rockcrawling, fab., etc.

Check out some of the photos that I posted of my Jeep on this thread:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/2nd-gen-4runner-rear-suspension-92557/

A SAS is most likely in the future, however it'll be a year or more, most likely.
In the mean time I'm going to get the 4Runner setup up on 33's with some resonable flex in the front (the rear will take care of itself) and run all but the most extreme trails that I've run in the Jeep.



Fred

FredTJ

For the time, I'm not really considering doing any of the kits that involve replacement a-arms, etc..
A SAS is in the future but probably a year off, and it'll be coilovers with 4 or 5 links.
For now, I'm going to armor up everything thing, push the center up as high as reasonable (probably using a 2" bl) and then doing something like the bj spacers in the front with either the extended travel bj's or the uniballs, then doing 2" springs in the rear (shocks all around of course).
That'll provide a 2" suspension lift, and, coupled with the 2" bl, and a 2" or so increase under the belly because of the pushed up xfer case/tranny, should give enough room for reasonable flex with 33's.
I'l look at something for the CV's in the front axle to help with binding, either clearancing them or look at what the Porsche CV's could do for me.

That'll allow me to run all of the trails that I use to with the Jeep except for the most extreme ones.

One thing regarding the use of heims vs TRE's.
In our experience out here and from some others in CA that run mostly JV, and, speaking from strictly a rockcrawling background, proper TRE's last much longer than any heims that we've used in steering applications.
Several have tried pretty much all of the top end heims and then simply don't hold up as well as a correctly size TRE's.

Check out my Webshot folders to see some of the fab work that I've done to the Jeep, such as the rear shock outboard mod, rear J-arms, front J-arms, HPD30 axle swap with WJ knuckles and J-Arms, rear trilink (allows removal of the rear track bar). Note that for the custom built tie rod, drag link, and track bar, I used TRE's, in this case from a WJ.

Anyway, those are pretty much my thoughts at the moment:
- a 2" body lift, coupled with a raised xfer case/tranny skid, probably a Budbuilt. This should also allow me to raise the gas tank up.
- BJ spacers for the front.
- Something with the lower balljoints to loosen up the upward travel, like the mega travel balljoints or uniballs.
- Stock torsion bars for the flex that they afford as opposed to thicker, aftermarket bars.
- 2" + springs in the rear.
- Raised trackbar bracket, axle end, for the rear.
- Shocks all around, longer for the extra travel
- Front and rear bumpers, rear wrap around.
- Rock sliders for the sides.
- Front and rear diff guards.
- Front engine skid, probably a BudBuilt.
- Taking some of the bind out of the rear sway bar links by using heims on the ends.
- Front disconnects.
- Lock front and rear
- Maybe looking at out boarding the rear shocks.
- Of course 33's (33 x 12.50 MT/R's).


Anyway, if anyone has suggestions or see's any flaws in the above, chime in.....



Fred

deathrunner

[QUOTE=FredTJ;985593]For the time, I'm not really considering doing any of the kits that involve replacement a-arms, etc..
/QUOTE]

No offense, but why did you start this thread then? hahaha

FredTJ

[QUOTE=deathrunner;986764]No offsense taken.
Valid question.

At that moment, 35's seemed something that I may have wanted to consider with the 4Runner "as it is"..
Now I'm thinking 33's for a while (maybe a year) and set everything else up correctly, which includes armor all around.
Later a SAS, not leaf sprung, but coils with a 4 or 5 link.
The 33's, 2" suspension lift, 2" bl, armored, center pushed up with a raised crossmember skid, and the suspension loose enough to provide some fair flex for the 33's (the rear is no problem) will get me on all except the most extreme trails of what I use to run with the Jeep.




Fred

Keggo

I would just wait to do the SAS if that's what you're eventually going to end up doing. Why spend money on something that's going to be ripped off soon anyway? I'd just save for the end product...

FredTJ

Because for a relatively small investment with nothing really to speak of wasted, I can wheel now (instead of waiting the 1 ~ 1 1/2 year until I do the SAS) on most all of the trails that I've done before except for the most extreme of them.

If you look at the mods it's only the springs (rear), shocks (all 4) and bj spacers that'll have to change when I do the SAS.
The bj spacers with a-arms I and the rear springs (and 4 shocks if they are good still) I should be able to sell with not much investment lost.




Fred

Keggo

I guess... I personally would just wait... I would just invest in body armor that can remain on the rig even after SAS. A stock vehicle with ample amount of protection is pretty capable...

slosurfer

I am not sure how much the uniball joints or mega travel joints are going to help considering the cost of them. I am also not sure how much you could recoup selling a used set of uniball joints. I personally wouldn't pay much for them unless I really knew the person and their rig. I think you are heading in the right direction, I would add low profile compression bumpstops to your setup. Instead of uniball joints get a spare cv axle, tierod setup, etc... all the stuff that is known to be weak on IFS. Here is a writeup on someone doing the dusy ershim with the mostly stock IFS
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/hottoy/west/

I just think for what you are doing spending the money on the joints may be a waste. Everything else seems to be on the right track, a little more $$$ than I would spend if I was going to SAS in a year or so, but can't argue with armor.

horunner

im not big suspencion genious but i went to downy and talked with the owner and he seemed intent on the fact that the total chaos kit was trash and he named 5 or 6 diff things about his kit that are better than the tc
anyone know what?"
oh and for those how asked before the downey kit cost 3157 for the full front and back kit
streight from the owners mouth

GenXr

Wow, Holy Old Post Batman!

pinnacle

What did he say was better with the downey kit than the TC kit?

I've been running my total chaos kit for over 2 1/2 years without a single problem.

I just read over the description on downeys and I dont agree with a lot of it, but that has been covered already earlier in this thread.