Just Learning

to really make the steam worth it , superheat it, it take 970 btus to get water to boil- steam nuke plants can not create enough energy to superheat steam, thats were the savings and power come in at, nuke plants only run saturated steam

Just Learning

oh ya we use h2 to cool the generators

4xJedi

My dad just installed an HHO kit he bought from a company. On his trip from Florida to WV he gained 2 mpg. While he's not going to put Shell out of business, it did work. No other changes were made on the truck since his last road trip. This was in a 2001 Diesel Excursion with an intake, 4" exhaust, and chip.

outdoorfan

Yes, you're right. Please don't confuse hydrogen for hydroxy gas. With pure professionally built hydrogen systems, the gas is stored in a high pressure tank. True. When it comes to oxy/hydrogen, which is way more potent of a fuel, and being that this technology is primarily being used by DIY'ers, trying to store it can be very dangerous.

Example: Once heard that some guy, who had one of these homebrews under the hood accidentally left it on while he went into the store with his girlfriend. He must have had it hooked straight to the battery with an on/off switch in the cab. The way it should be done is to use a relay and tie it into the oil pressure sender or fuel pump so that it's only running when the engine is running. Or, at least it should be wired so that it won't stay on with the ignition off.

Anyway, about an hour later he comes out of the store with his gf. They jump in the car. He cranks it over. The spark from the plugs ignite this gas which has by now filled the entire intake and everything. It blew the intake (maybe the head) right off the block, or something like that.

They were okay, but he needed major engine work after changing their underwear. Don't know if this story is true, but it could easiy happe. I've lit these hydroxy bubbles off with a torch (only a few small ones at a time), and I can assure you it is a very explosive gas.

outdoorfan

The best that I can explain it, car manufacturers are ruled over by the EPA. I would be willing to bet that the EPA has many "BIG OIL INTERESTS" sitting on their board. Just like the FDA having big pharmaceuticals on their board. Works against the public interest, if you know what I mean. That is one of the biggest problems that we have right now in this United Socialists of America.

Remember, internal combustion engines are only 20-30% efficient. If we can add a device that will increase that efficiency by only another 5%, then the increase if fuel economy will theoretically by a 5% improvement, or something like that. People act as if these engines are 100% efficient and can't be improved upon. Not the case, although I'm not an engineer and won't get into a big debate over it.

EFIE-Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer

What it does is takes the voltage signal from the O2 sensor and adds voltage to it to fool the computer into thinking that that the engine is running rich. The reason many people have found it necessary to use one is that burning hydroxy gas in the intake somehow causes the computer to richen things up, even though it doesn't need to. There's some debate of this, but nevertheless, there's enough people that use it with success that I can assure you it has some value.

I did some tests using the EFIE without the booster on to make sure that my mpg gains were not totally from the EFIE. What I found was that the EFIE gave me about a 5% gain, at the most. So, I know the gas did something too. Once, again, most people would probably not want to go through all this trouble for 12%, but 20% is more tempting. Some people report more. Some are lying, but not all are.

The Prius. Interesting. Bob Boyce, who is the current authority on this whole subject, drives a Prius. He has gotten boosted drives over the freeway (cross-country) that have at times exceeded 100 mpg on flat stretches of road. His average is still way over factory mpg. He also claims that when he had to use gas with lots of ethynol in it, that would rob him of most of his gains.

outdoorfan

I forgot to mention that those people using baking soda need to swith to KOH (potassium hydroxide) or NaOH (sodium hydroxide). Baking soda is a bad catalyst to use in these boosters for a variety of reasons.

Hypoid

This thread is hilarious.

genetheinstaller

Outdoorfan,
You seam to be the only one here that has any idea what they are talking about (no offense to anyone). Has anyone else here used a HHO generator? I've built 4 of them on three different designs and am using a EFIE. Due to the computer in my '89 4x4 Toy it is very difficult to make these things work. I'm still tinkering. I'm convinced this is a doable alternative and some people are having great success. On the older non-computer vehicles it is a snap to get much increased gas milage. Check out hydroxyhut.com, Bob the moderator has an '89 Toy truck and has a wealth of info on the subject. There are many HHO scams out there especially on ebay. You really have to try it to understand what is going on. It is expensive to get a system working. I have a plan to use solar power to produce the hydroxy gas and therefore no drain on the engine. I think as the price of gas goes back up this idea will take off. Whatever you do don't use baking soda! KOH (potassium hydroxide) is the best I've found to creat an electrolite with distilled water. Don't use glass jars! Research and study everything you can get your hands on. Expect to need about 3 to 4 LPM (leters per minute) to acheive over 40+ mpg on a 2.4 leter engine.
genetheinstaller

outdoorfan

I can only interpret that statement one way. Now, I have something for you to think about.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is condemnation prior to investigation”
-Herbert Spencer

outdoorfan

Interesting. Yeah, my booster was a replica of the 1st generation Smack's design. He claimed he could get 1.7 LPM at 20 amps, but the best I could do was 1-1.2 at 20 amps. I would usually run it at 10-15 amps, and of course the gas production was pretty anemic considering what I was asking it to do (give me better gas mileage). The next thing I'm gonna play with is one that will do around 1 LPM for every 10 amps of current draw.

Seems to me that 3-4 LPM will need to be in an extremely efficient design or else that current draw will negate any gains that could have been had.

I'm always interested in what other 22re users are getting for gains with their boosters installed. I'll have to go check out that forum/info. Thanks.

genetheinstaller

I built 2 of those and I did get 1.75LPM but at 25 amps and 180 degrees. that much heat won't work for me since water boiles at 160 degrees here at 6500 feet and so I'd basically burn the electrolite. I built 2 Randy Cells and had the same problem. Now I have the modified Tero Cell that Smack did and I can see the advantage of it. Though I need to keep the heat down so I'll have to find a way to run two of them and upgrade to a 90 or 110amp alternator. Doing this with a dual battery system is my next project. That way I can keep them both at 15amps and therefore keep the heat down and should get 3+ LPM. This should give a good 40+ mpg. Just out of money right now so that will be later. My goal is to power the HHO generators with Solar power and 2 L16 batteries with a charge controller and maby a power booster to maintain the 13.8Volts longer. Here in AZ sunshine is no problem. It's a great hobby and I've learned a whole lot more about my truck. What EFIE are you using? I'm using one form fuelSaver-mpg.com. I do like the power increase I get when running the HHO generator and the smooth quiet idle. Even running only one booster at 20 amps with the EFIE I get about 3 mpg increase and better performance. I think the Tero Cell design is the best out there. I'm not sure the modified design that Eric at Smack developed is the best way to go though. A lot of people are working on ways to power these generators by not using the engine. I think that is the best idea. Definately check out hydroxyhut.com I'm known as Tink there. Those guys are serious and have a whole lot more experience at this than me.

Mic09dcsm

Don't bitch about our gun laws, you saying we're uber conservative is like me saying the only way california doesn't have a negative population growth is because all the people who move there, since god knows all those fags don't procreate, and weather, psh I can go outside however long I like anytime of the day, mr. I live in a smog basin.