patallen

So my 85' 22rec was not starting until i knocked the solenoid with the extention for the jack...
So i replaced it with a rebuild unit...same thing.
I replaced it again with a NEW unit...SAME THING !!!!

what is going on with this starter...i opened it all to see what was going on, nothing aparent.

I am getting full power at B+ and solenoid when it dont want to crank so its the starter itself. I was wondering about the body of the starter not beign grounded but it is not since the engine block has been rebuilded and painted.

I can hear a small "tic" but nothing else. I realised that it need a very small tap on it and then it goes...

argh !!!

any idea ??

WI_Mike

I had this problem on my trip from Milwaukee to Salt Lake City recently. This issue happened two times when we stopped for gas. I think that there is a problem where the vehicle doesn't know it is in park and therefore won't send power to the selenoid. Make sure you are all the way in park and try to start it.

patallen

sorry but re-read my post, i have +12v at the solenoid and the B+ and i hear a "tic" inside the starter when it dont want to cooperate.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

You might want to open up the starter solenoid to see what it looks like inside. Just because you put a "rebuilt" starter in there, don't assume it is all brand new inside, often they are not:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

Then try bench testing it outside the vehicle. Put a 12v battery charger or jumper cables off you battery to the solenoid. See if it pushes out and retracts smoothly. And for the grounding question, measure voltage from starter body to battery "-" terminal to see if you have any voltage present there (should be none). And when you measure 12 volts to the solenoid, is that under load?

patallen

Be assured, i dont assume anything because i put a rebuild one, what bugs me is that i put a new one and it does the same...

I have around 10v (not 12) at the solenoid under load, but no crank. I believe this is "normal" considering the size of the wire and the path it makes to reach the solenoid.
I did try to jump it directly to the battery to get a healty 12v but still no workie. Only the litle tap on it does it.

There is no voltage drop across the body of the starter nor the engine or the battery.

btw, i am automotive electronic engineer, so i know my stuff unless something play funky like this

EDIT: it happens very not often, so i test benching it can take forever until it will do it.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

10 volts under load is not normal, at least if the starter is not working. Much more than 0.5 volts drop from the battery is too much:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...shtml#EasyTest

Solenoid pulls about 20 amps so you need a good connection to make it go. Check upstream from the starter to find out where the voltage drop is coming from:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions

patallen

i did try to jump it directly to the battery and it was not working either.
there was 12v then.

btw, nice link for the starter bogus info.

I have many old DVOM, i will connect them to the system (B+, solenoid, body to the engine) and will look when the problem will happen...maybe it is just inards.

patallen

is there a start relay only on manual ones?

mine is automatic.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Maybe yes, maybe no. I think they started around '86 or so with the clutch cancel switch. My '85 has none. No matter w/ relay or not, the power for the relay (if present) and the solenoid comes through the ignition switch. Sort of a strange arrangement, as the relay really does not do anything to take the load off the igntion switch.