Stump1883

Okay I'm sure this has been discussed many times, I'm planning on getting an 85' Runner as soon as I sell my 3rd gen. So I'm trying to get the best ideas for lift systems b/c I know that will be amoung my first mods.

I know alot of ppl. run the Rancho 44044 springs in the front and Chevy 1/2 tons in the rear, but those rear springs only give you 3-4" while the Rancho's give 5-5.5", I don't want to use lift blocks in the rear at all(they are dangerous in my book), are there some leafs that I could use to get 5 or so inches in the rear to match up front?

Also, is Hy-steer Crossover Steering a must when I'm only looking for 5", or is a luxuary that I would possibly want? It sounds to be more for the really extream lifts, like 6"+.

Sorry I know this is alot but I want to be well informed. Thanks in advance.

Flygtenstein

If you want to be informed, go to PBB.

Then type in 44044's, big points if you know which rig they come off.

Type in High Steer and Crossover.

Then type in Chevy Swap.

That reading will keep you busy for years.

Run hy-steer if you are running more than 33's.

Look for 2" lift Chevy's to get level.

Think about running stock rears in the front so you can run Chevy's out back. They don't just bolt in. Some decision needs to be made for the shackle(s).

Lockers are a good mod for a trail truck too.

Ask Adam, that is what is on his truck, but it is somewhat different since it was swapped.

Adam F

Do what Flygtenstein said, you will find all the info.

Short answer, yes, you really do need crossover steering if you are serious about 4wheeling and want a safe, effective rig to drive on the street.

Use add-a-leafs in the rear, along with small blocks if you need to. The chevy springs are soo thick that you will not see any axle wrap. Get good blocks and you wont have problems.

crawler#976

toy faq's on the Pirate BBS has answers or links to the questions you have-

I'd highly recommend hy-steer w/ a lift of 4". I've never even touched a tierod on a rock in 3 years of wheelin'. It'll cost you about a grand to do on a first gen- you have to convert from push/pull to an IFS steering box.

Don't lift over 4 or 5 inches- the stability sucks if you get higher than that. I'd recommend a 4" lift and cutting fenders, tubbing the firewall to get the tire clearance you need. You'll want to push the front springs at least 1.5" forward, maybe more. Check out All Pro's Extreme Lift Kit for first gens to see how it's done right-

later

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Feel free to peruse my '85 4Runner suspension pages.

Stump1883

I've done pretty much all of that you suggested, I've gone into Pirate 4x4 FAQs alot, and even yours 4Crawlers, done alot of reading there. But what I really need/want is real world opinions.

Thanks crawler#976, for your ideas of not going over 4", I would prefer not to do any cutting or tubing of the firewall. This truck will be my daily driver, as well as my trail rig. So I need to keep things like trimming and bobing for when I get another truck. My idea is to get 5"(or as close as possible) and add 35 MTRs, double lock(ARB, 5.29) and now hy-stear, so I can keep a somewhat "civil" truck to go out and hit the trails but still commute to school and work.

Thanks everyone for your help, if anyone was any other information please add on, all the more I know about these trucks b4 I buy the better off I am.

crawler#976

my setup is based on a second gen IFS truck-

I went w/ the 5" All Pro 1.5" longer front springs, All Pro 56" rear springs w/ flip kit so that I could point the pinion at the t'case , hy-steer, dual t'cases; for two reasons: 1. 109:1 crawl ratio, 2. better angle for front d'shaft since it's 6" longer than stock. The rear springs were shifted back 2" to add a total of 3.5" to the short bed wheel base.

I wish I'd gone w' the 4" springs to decrease the height.

W/ the 5" springs, I had to trim the rear fenders behind the tires trim the front fenders, and pound the body seams back to the firewall to get full articulation w/ 35" MT/R's. It wasn't a real problem until I added the 1.5" wheel spacers up front, the extra width changed the turning radius and where the tires stuffed a bunch.

You might investigate getting a second gen rear axle too. They are 3" wider, and tho it doesn't seem like much difference, it does help stability.

later

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

On my '85, key points are to move the front axle forward (mine 2.75" forward from stock - 2" due to the use of the stock rear springs up front), lower the front spring hangers (mine 2.5" down) and crossover steering of some sort (high steer or standard over-under crossover).

Stump1883

I really wish I could claim to be as technically inclined as you guys obviously seem to be, but I can't. I need something that I can bolt up, and have incredible travel, I don't mind getting parts from other trucks, like Chevy springs and 44044s, but I really get scared when looking at 4Crawler's site and seeing all the welding and custom work.

Can anyone point me in the direction, of a relitivly "easy" spring system, how about Orbit Eyes, or All Pro kits(not the 2K Extream Lift Kit). I really like the ideas that 4Crawler has but I can't do, or know anyone who can do work like your tripple shock set up.

Is there anything simple and yet still very effective for great articulation. Or is there even such a thing, I could possibly be dreaming the impossible dream.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

If you read through my progression of suspension setups, I did start with a fully bolt-on system. It worked OK, got me through the Rubicon and other trails like that. I did outgrow that initial setup in the quest for more articulation and travel. With a fully bolt-on system, you will find the shocks will ultimately limit your travel. The Orbit Eye springs WILL require welding as you need different spring hangers. My long travel front shock setup is bolt-on, in fact I plan to offer it as a kit for the '85 and earlier trucks.

Note, I was able to get upwards of an 800 RTI with my "bolt-on" suspension, that consisted of a mix of NWOR 3.5" and stock spring leaves. Not awesome but adequate, got me through the Rubicon, Santiago Canyon (while it was still open), etc. To get much beyond that you will have to do some custom work, I was basically shock limited with that setup, fronts and rears would limit up and down travel (to the point the front shock tore the front shock mount off the axle - thus prompting the design of my long travel setup).

Shane

Plan way ahead if you go that route, orders from AOR typically take months to show and you'll never catch them answering the phone or get an email response from them. Some people have had to wait nearly a year for their stuff, I had two recent orders for small parts (shackles, u-bolt flips) take over 3 months each and they charge you the moment you order.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Took about 4 months for my rear Orbit Eyes to show up, but then again they sat in my back yard for 8 more months before I finally got the cutting and welding done and shackles fabricated to install them

But yes, AOR is pretty slow, same w/ Alcan (who makes AOR's springs) they'll take at least 6 weeks from receipt of order until the springs are done (which is partly to blame for AOR's spring delivery times).

They are nice springs, though, I've had both Alcans and now the Orbit Eyes. Worth the time and money (if both are not issues for you), but I also love my free front springs, too!

Shane

Nope, less than two weeks from order to my door just a couple months ago, and that was with a bunch of strange requests like odd length on the rears, non-stock eye diameters, and front center pin moved up. Without those requests it would've been a few days sooner.

AOR's issue is they don't know how to keep stuff in stock, and they let their suppliers walk all over them. Good guys, just can't run a business to save their lives. If your springs take more than two weeks from AOR, I guarantee you it's because of the orbit-eyes.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

When I ordered my rear springs straight from Alcan, I was quoted 4-6 weeks and it was a bit more than 6 when they shipped and just about 7 by the time I got them. A lot depends on Alcan's backlog, if they are not busy they can crank out a set pretty fast, for sure. I know of a few folks who got the wrong spring and within a week they had the right one (apparently made from scratch).

And yes, I agree that AOR has supplier problems, and I imagine that the sole source problem they have with the Orbit Eye joints is a major issue and I think what they do is to want until they have enough OE joints for an order before they place the spring order, so they end up compounding the delays. X weeks for the Orbit Eyes to arrive then Y weeks to order from Alcan. If they had a better system they could stack the two delays and order the springs Y weeks before the Orbit Eyes were supposed to be in, but most shops I know don't do that.

I even had Marlin do that same thing to me, while he was waiting for my ARBs to arrive, he could have pre-ordered the new gears, but waited until the ARBs came in, then he found out the gears were out of stock and I ended up waiting a few more weeks. Then there was the 5 months it took Marlin to get the parts in to repair my dual transfer cases, new overseas supplier, then all the first batch of parts went out to people that just wanted gears, then I had to wait for the second batch since there was labor required to install the parts in my cases.

Shane

But... they quoted you a time somewhat close to what you got. Backlog or no, I got a response from AOR (my one and only ever) on one of my orders that told me my stuff was shipping that week. Didn't get it for months...

I had a bit of a delay from Marlin when ordering my crawler stuff, but it was caused by bad handwriting. They pretty much lost the order (wrong phone #, wrong CC #), but luckily they don't charge in advance (not that they could with the wrong info...) so I wasn't too worried.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Correct, Alcan is pretty good at forecasting and they did deliver in about the time I was quoted. My bpoint was that their backlog can vary, while you got your springs in 2 weeks, mine took 6+ weeks.

I think AOR quoted me about 8 weeks on my springs, they took about 3.5 months. Had a buddy order a set 2 weeks before me and he got his 2 weeks befire I got mine. No doubt they are slow.

crawler#976

I've ordered from AOR-

IMHO- avoid them like the plague.

Nice products, extremely crappy service.

I actually had to go to extreme of having my Visa card holders service department issue a "hostile credit return" becauses they were totally unresponsive to e-mail, phone or written inquiries. They charge your card as soon as the order is placed, and w/ most cards you only have 90 day to reverse charges. I started my action against them at 85 days- almost 3 months.

Order directly from Alcan or All Pro. They have a much better reputation-

Stump1883

Well I'm certainly glad to know who not to deal with, and who to give my business too, thanks guys. I'm seriously looking into just going to All Pro and getting the bits and peices I would need and being happy with just that, anything I do would be better than the ol' IFS I'm used to, so I can't exactly complain over an RTI score of 800, please any articualtion w/o being scared of tipping would be wonderful for me .

4Crawler, when do you plan on making a set of those long travel shocks, and do you have any idea on pricing. I would love a set, then I could just get some good springs and be set to FLEEEEEEX.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Hopefully pretty soon. I need to redesign mine a bit to account for my body lift (original design was for stock height), so once I have the parts out, I'll be using the old one as a template for the kit (they were essentially built to fit, so I didn't have any plans, which is why I need to have the old ones for the dimensions). I just picked up most of the parts I need to start cranking them out, so stay tuned to my web page, will have the info. posted there.