AggPerMS

Hello,

My first post and it's a BHG question.

I rebuilt my dad's 86 1 ton 22RE, his work truck. Today, he called and told me it's steaming white smoke out the exhaust. I was shocked! WTF! Only 800 miles!

The reason for the rebuild was because it burned oil (cylinder crosshatch was gone!!) and it burned 3 exhuast valves.

Engine spec: Bored .020 over with Rock Products pistons. Block's deck was un-touch since it was CLEAN. Head was rebuilt with new Toyota valve springs and 4 new aftermarket exhaust valves. Re-used intake valves. Serdi 3 angle valve job. Head was surfaced so it's nice and flat. New bearings, polish crank. New Toyota head bolts. Rock Products overhaul gasket set.

I know the issue with corrosion on the 22R head since I ran into that problem 6-7 years ago with his other Toyota truck. But this head has zero corrosion.

The only issue I can think of is the Rock Products headgasket. Everything I read said to buy from engnbldr.com and they sell Rock Products.

(BTW, this isn't my first motor built. I have other motors lasting 50K+. This is my first time not using a Toyota overhaul gasket set or high performance headgasket i.e. HKS, TTE, Apexi, Cosworth)

c0ugar69

did you clean out the block threads, mine had lots of carbon build up and can cause false torque readings. also I torqued mine 10lb more than spec based on what others have said here on yotatech. I have about 1200 miles on mine so far no problems, hopefully it stays that way.

DoveGray85

Wow! That sucks to have the head gasket blow that quick. I just did some engine work using a Rock gaskets from Enginbldr. I hope the head gasket isn't crap. I don't expect 200k out of the motor, but 800 miles?!! What the hell went wrong?

83

I have to say that I'd probably have the block & head decked anyway, unless you made absolutely sure they were both completely level. I have a rock gasket kit in my engine. So far...I think it's gone about 10,000 miles. Of course things happen. I think I heard from somebody in the Pre-'84 section that they use only Toyota gaskets now after a couple Rock failures.

Innervision

I would go back and torque the head bolts again. After the thermal cycling they may need to be tightened down.

83

I think he said he left the block alone. Didn't deck it at all. So it wouldn't be a matter of too much, it might be a matter of "he should have"...

But who knows! Headgaskets fail, sometimes prematurely.

spdjnky

I rebuilt my engine and had a couple of thousand miles on it when my headgasket went. had my head resurfaced and checked the block myself with a straight edge. don't know why, but when I re-did the headgasket I spent the extra $$ on ARP headstuds and it's been fine since then!

AggPerMS

Update:

Sorry for the slow update, it has been a busy week.

I started the truck today and I saw the white smoke and smelled the sweet steam myself .. it's 100% coolant.

I decided to do a compression check to see which cylinder so at least I know what to look for when I pulled the head ...

#1, plug is dry and compression is 210

When I pulled the #2 plug, you can see the steam coming out. Yeah, found it. It will have low compression ... NO ... compression is 210 ... WTF!

#3, plug is dry and compression is 210
#4, plug is dry and compression is 210

I decided to do a leakdown on #2 and it has 8% loss (100 PSI in the cylinder, it holds 92 PSI). It's higher then I want but it has only 800 miles, I expect 4-5%. (BTW, great is less then 10%.) It didn't produce any bubbles in the coolant system ... WTF! ... yet the plug is wet and it's smoking.

I leakdown 1, 3 & 4 too .. 8% loss too.

I pressurized the coolant system to 14 PSI and it doesn't hold. It's leaking somewhere but not in the combustion chamber because if it leaks at 14 PSI, at 100 PSI for a leakdown test, it will be a windstorm!

Could it be leaking before the head? Below the thermostat housing is #2 intake runner ...

I drained the coolant system and borrowed a evap smoke tester .. found nothing but the evap tester is at very low psi (1-2 psi) so it doens't rule that intake manifold out.

drew303

210 PSI is 39 pounds higher than what you should be reading. You must have had the head really decked ?? Toyota Spec is 171psi with a warmed motor WOT.


Coolant may be leaking into the intake where it meets the head.

I'd start there by tearing the intake off and resealing it with a new gasket.

AggPerMS

I chased all the threads. I oiled the head bolts and screw them into the block (without the head) and wipe all the extra oil off the deck. I do this twice so the oil is distributred. The head bolts are stored in order so I know which bolt goes where.

I torqued them to the factory spec.

When I dropped the block off, I told them to deck it if it needs it. They said it's clean and flat. When I picked it up, it looks clean.

The head was surfaced to clean up the surface ... typcially .005-.007

I torqued them in 3 step. I follow the OEM pattern ... furthest distance from the current bolt. BUT one think I do differently is that I go backwards after the new bolt. Torque# 1, T #2, Go back & T #1, T 3, Go back & T 2 & T1 , ... T10, Go back & T9, T8 .. T1. From my experience, when you torque the next bolt, it somewhat lossen the previous bolt so that's why I so back to re-torque it.

I don't know the CR. I was expecting stock compression ratio.

DoveGray85

Maybe a crack in the head in front of the combustion chamber? Did they pressure test it?

My head actually pressure tested OK, but they found cracks, so I went ahead and got a new casting. Why take a chance on a 25 year old head?

xxxtreme22r

my guess has already been said, intake gasket on the head side.

AggPerMS

I suspect the intake manifold gasket too but with the amount of water just dripping out of the exhaust system (4X the amount you see when you start up on a cold morning), it looks like coolant enters straight into the exhaust system. Base on the amount of smoke, the smell and water the instance the motor start up, it should be an easy problem to find.

My other guess; I started the engine without coolant and it idle great; is the EGR cooler plate on the back of the head. It could leak coolant into the exhaust system (that explains the amount of water dripping out) but the EGR appears to dump into cyl#4, not cyl#2.

I'm going to try it later, put in coolant & coolant dye, remove the header and block the EGR and start up the motor and see if it could be the EGR plate. If that's not the problem, hopefully the dye will leave a mark when I remove the intake manifold and see if it's leaking from the intake gasket. If not, then I will remove the head since I already have a Toyota OEM valve grind kit sitting here.

I didn't pressure test the head since the motor had oil buring problem and burned exhaust valves. I assumed everything else is good. It never overheated for the last 2 years my dad owned and drove it. And it didn't overheat with the current problem. He said it started after he drove it, parked and started it up and notice the problem. He drove it around the whole day since it never overheated but got worried once it got home and still smoke.

My goal is to find the problem instead of just pulling the head and putting it back and the problem could still be there.

83

Well you clearly know what you're doing, so just keep letting people know what you've tried and if you don't figure it out all on you're own (I'm betting you will), somebody here may be able to point you in the right direction.

AggPerMS

Turns out the Rock Product gasket is fine, the problem is the head.

I pulled the exhaust manifold to follow thru on my test and notice only #2 exhaust port has water marking. I did the smoke test again and this time I saw the smoke coming out of the exhaust port. (I didn't pay attention to the exhaust tip the last time I did it.)

I put the motor on TDC to determine if its either crack on intake chamber or exhaust chamber (combustion chamber is ruled out because of the leakdown test. I don't think the stock cam has any overlap.) and it still leak smoke so the exhaust chamber has a crack. I'm in the process of pulling off the head and I will take some pictures.

New Toyota OEM bare head ($550) vs Cheapy Chinese Crap bare head ($175)? I will re-use the valve springs and exhaust valves since it has only 800 miles. I don't think I even need to re-face the valves. Time to use the search button regarding those CCC!

dieselloco427

That had me worried... I used Rock Products Head Gasket on a friend's Runner (3.0l). They've held for about a year now. Good to see your problem wasn't the HG.

xxxtreme22r

look into the Engnbldr heads. fully assembled, valves and everything ready to go for $348 shipped. $448 for the rv head with bigger valves etc.

toyota_mdt_tech

Your problem is failed Rock brand headgaskets. They are garbage and last no more than about a year. The compression was higher for several reasons, water filling cylinder and also sealing the rings better like a "wet" test would do. Use OE gaskets and get 150K out of it.

85celicagthatchback

The rock gadkits are great I have one on my 10.5 22re in my celica no problems. The rock recast heads are a nice head but they could use some seat to bowl blending befor u install the valves and a nicer cam would help a bit

85celicagthatchback

Bigger valves are not the amsewer to more power with a 22r its raising the roof of the port and blending the bowl and working the short turn watch the YouTube porting videos to get a idea of what u should do get a rock head and do a little head work mite as well to help that heavy thing move and get a good cam don't.go to LC ! There a rip off