Supercharged 4Runner at Altitude
07-21-2006, 07:05 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Supercharged 4Runner at Altitude
Ok, I accidentally hijacked a thread somewhat so I'm starting a new one from where we left off:
And, continue...
Originally Posted by mastacox
It's a '98, in NC:
Here's what it currently looks like, Graham has done a great job of building and taking care of this rig, I am totally STOKED!!!
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/some-new-pics-1-inch-body-lift-89891/
The classified listing:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f180/1998-supercharged-4runner-sale-boone-nc-83458/
The fact that it already has so much done to it really puts me on top. Two days after I get it I'm having a URD Fuel Upgrade Kit and 2.2" Pulley installed, then I'll be ready to ROCK! I might also get a 2.1" pulley for high altitude, for swapping back and forth (since Los Alamos is at 7500 ft) but I'll get an EGT gauge first to keep an eye on things.
My little 3.Slow struggles at altitude, maybe around 105hp I think, so I am SO ready for a big bad 3.4
Here's what it currently looks like, Graham has done a great job of building and taking care of this rig, I am totally STOKED!!!
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/some-new-pics-1-inch-body-lift-89891/
The classified listing:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f180/1998-supercharged-4runner-sale-boone-nc-83458/
The fact that it already has so much done to it really puts me on top. Two days after I get it I'm having a URD Fuel Upgrade Kit and 2.2" Pulley installed, then I'll be ready to ROCK! I might also get a 2.1" pulley for high altitude, for swapping back and forth (since Los Alamos is at 7500 ft) but I'll get an EGT gauge first to keep an eye on things.
My little 3.Slow struggles at altitude, maybe around 105hp I think, so I am SO ready for a big bad 3.4
Originally Posted by mt_goat
Sweet truck, good score!
Yeah I mainly got the 2.1 inch pulley because of my trips to the Rockies and the high elevation. If you read Gadget's "u-tune" write-up he said at around 5000 ft your actual boost (relative to sea level) is cut to about 3 psi with the stock pulley, even though your boost gauge will read 6-7 psi. If it's that low at 5000 ft image how little the boost would be up here: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42310107iSWMTL
Yeah I mainly got the 2.1 inch pulley because of my trips to the Rockies and the high elevation. If you read Gadget's "u-tune" write-up he said at around 5000 ft your actual boost (relative to sea level) is cut to about 3 psi with the stock pulley, even though your boost gauge will read 6-7 psi. If it's that low at 5000 ft image how little the boost would be up here: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42310107iSWMTL
Originally Posted by mastacox
Yeah, the gauge is a "relative" one, not true "absolute," so it only measures the difference between the pressure you are at, and the boost pressure. Air pressure at sea level is 14.7 psi, so with a 9 psi pulley (read: URD 2.2") you are putting 23.7 psi into the engine. But, at 5280 ft the air pressure is about 11.8 psi and at 7500 ft it is only 10.8 psi... So at 7500 ft I will only be putting 19.8 psi in, but with the 2.1" I should be able to get back up around "Sea Level" boost ranges. But, like I said, I want an EGT gauge first since Los Alamos is at 7500 ft, but I may go down to around 5500 ft some times, and I don't want to mess with water injection, yet... I'm going to get a 2-pod to put my boost gauge in one and the EGT one in the other.
Originally Posted by mastacox
By the way, what goes into installing an EGT gauge anyway? Is it easy or a huge PITA? I'm really more curious as to what goes into installing the probe, the gauge is easy. Disconnect the exhaust at the cat, drill hole about 8" from exhaust port, and blow out chips, something like that?
07-21-2006, 07:49 AM
#2
Contributing Member
Do you have headers or the stock manifold?
From what I understand you want to place the probe very close to an exhaust port, like within 4 or 5 inches. I am having a harder time doing that because I've got a 2001 stock manifold and in around 2000 they started using a double walled tube type manifold. This makes welding a bung and getting a good seal on the inside wall very difficult. The older ones were single wall cast iron and should be easy, some have recommended using the EGR port.
I've decided to drill my hole for the probe after the manifold as soon as my cross-over starts (my custom cross-over is single wall tubing). This will still be pretty close to 2 of the ports and maybe about a foot away from the 3rd port. I'll post a pic later, just starting this probe install right now.
From what I understand you want to place the probe very close to an exhaust port, like within 4 or 5 inches. I am having a harder time doing that because I've got a 2001 stock manifold and in around 2000 they started using a double walled tube type manifold. This makes welding a bung and getting a good seal on the inside wall very difficult. The older ones were single wall cast iron and should be easy, some have recommended using the EGR port.
I've decided to drill my hole for the probe after the manifold as soon as my cross-over starts (my custom cross-over is single wall tubing). This will still be pretty close to 2 of the ports and maybe about a foot away from the 3rd port. I'll post a pic later, just starting this probe install right now.
Last edited by mt_goat; 07-21-2006 at 07:51 AM.
07-21-2006, 08:02 AM
#3
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mt_goat
Do you have headers or the stock manifold?
From what I understand you want to place the probe very close to an exhaust port, like within 4 or 5 inches. I am having a harder time doing that because I've got a 2001 stock manifold and in around 2000 they started using a double walled tube type manifold. This makes welding a bung and getting a good seal on the inside wall very difficult. The older ones were single wall cast iron and should be easy, some have recommended using the EGR port.
I've decided to drill my hole for the probe after the manifold as soon as my cross-over starts (my custom cross-over is single wall tubing). This will still be pretty close to 2 of the ports and maybe about a foot away from the 3rd port. I'll post a pic later, just starting this probe install right now.
From what I understand you want to place the probe very close to an exhaust port, like within 4 or 5 inches. I am having a harder time doing that because I've got a 2001 stock manifold and in around 2000 they started using a double walled tube type manifold. This makes welding a bung and getting a good seal on the inside wall very difficult. The older ones were single wall cast iron and should be easy, some have recommended using the EGR port.
I've decided to drill my hole for the probe after the manifold as soon as my cross-over starts (my custom cross-over is single wall tubing). This will still be pretty close to 2 of the ports and maybe about a foot away from the 3rd port. I'll post a pic later, just starting this probe install right now.
07-21-2006, 08:43 AM
#4
Registered User
Originally Posted by mt_goat
From what I understand you want to place the probe very close to an exhaust port, like within 4 or 5 inches.
On our engines, this will be the front cylinder on the driver's side.
Getting a probe in there is tricky, there's not a lot of room to work. You also want to be sure to run a probe on a threaded bung, DO NOT USE A CLAMP-ON, it'll leak like a sieve.
Past that, the install is easy. Run the probe wires through the firewall to the gauge, run power to the gauge, mount the gauge and fire it up. 1450* is the top end for a 3.4L.
Have fun!
07-21-2006, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by midiwall
Past that, the install is easy. Run the probe wires through the firewall to the gauge, run power to the gauge, mount the gauge and fire it up. 1450* is the top end for a 3.4L.
What confuses me is how people are using EGT's to tune? I use mine as an indicator to get my damm foot off the pedal (it hangs around 1500* with my foot down) and I also wait for it to get below 800* before I turn off the car.
I don't know any better, so please edumacate me
.
07-21-2006, 09:39 AM
#6
Registered User
Ahhh... lurking are we?
Mr. G:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/Gauges.h...monitor:%C2%A0
I think WOT tuning with an A/FR meter is fine, it's certainly quicker, but at the $$$ I paid for the LM-1 - ouch. Having used it a few times, I'm comfortable in tuning with the EGT, ear and seat-of-the pants. Is it dead-on-ballz accurate? No, and I wouldn't recommend doing it that way if you've never tuned before.
When I bash the pedal, I can watch the EGT and listen and get dern close to setting up at 12:-12.5:1. At the temps we're talking about, the line is pretty fine between power/no-power, and the results are very black & white. Once you relate the A/FR to what you hear, feel and see on the EGT, you'll know it. It's not hard to replicate.
Originally Posted by tour4fun
Where did you get that figure from?
http://www.gadgetonline.com/Gauges.h...monitor:%C2%A0
EGT Gauge
The exhaust gas temperature (EGT) gauge shows how hot the exhaust gas is.
...
If you see the temps going up as load increases and then suddenly see the temps drop off, be careful. That is a sign of detonation and a tremendous amount of heat is being absorbed internally and could lead to an engine failure. Look out for that. In my dyno testing max power was between 1400-1450 F. Over 1450 the power would drop off indicating a loss of power from to lean of a mixture.
The exhaust gas temperature (EGT) gauge shows how hot the exhaust gas is.
...
If you see the temps going up as load increases and then suddenly see the temps drop off, be careful. That is a sign of detonation and a tremendous amount of heat is being absorbed internally and could lead to an engine failure. Look out for that. In my dyno testing max power was between 1400-1450 F. Over 1450 the power would drop off indicating a loss of power from to lean of a mixture.
What confuses me is how people are using EGT's to tune? I use mine as an indicator to get my damm foot off the pedal (it hangs around 1500* with my foot down) and I also wait for it to get below 800* before I turn off the car.
I don't know any better, so please edumacate me.
I don't know any better, so please edumacate me
.
When I bash the pedal, I can watch the EGT and listen and get dern close to setting up at 12:-12.5:1. At the temps we're talking about, the line is pretty fine between power/no-power, and the results are very black & white. Once you relate the A/FR to what you hear, feel and see on the EGT, you'll know it. It's not hard to replicate.
07-21-2006, 10:32 AM
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Sorry to hijack your thread
Maybe I should just clarify that I'm in a totally different situation. I've 6 additional injectors so I can dump as much fuel as I want to 'cool' things off. Yes, I'm also aware that running too rich robs power.
Maybe I should just clarify that I'm in a totally different situation. I've 6 additional injectors so I can dump as much fuel as I want to 'cool' things off. Yes, I'm also aware that running too rich robs power.
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07-21-2006, 10:41 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by tour4fun
Sorry to hijack your thread
Maybe I should just clarify that I'm in a totally different situation. I've 6 additional injectors so I can dump as much fuel as I want to 'cool' things off. Yes, I'm also aware that running too rich robs power.
Maybe I should just clarify that I'm in a totally different situation. I've 6 additional injectors so I can dump as much fuel as I want to 'cool' things off. Yes, I'm also aware that running too rich robs power.
LOL, and this thread was made to quit jacking another one!It's no big deal, we are having useful conversation that I am learnig from so let's continue!
07-21-2006, 10:48 AM
#9
I installed my probe in/on the EGR block off plate on the #3 (?) cylinder port. I welded the supplied bung from the Z-series guage into the plate after I drilled a 9/16 hole. Install is very easy if you are comfortable with tapping a cast manifold or header (depending on your set up).
One thing we need to remember is that EGT's will drop (often suddenly) upon pre-detonation situations. Also, too much timing retard (which in my case might be a serious problem) can raise EGT's excessively. I am running 10 degrees of timing retard in places; I will know what this has done as soon as Autometer sends me the latest probe (the current probe has a grounding problem so it doesn't work).
I am really looking forward to seeing the before and after EGT's once I get some new injectors installed. That should be "cool" to see.
One thing we need to remember is that EGT's will drop (often suddenly) upon pre-detonation situations. Also, too much timing retard (which in my case might be a serious problem) can raise EGT's excessively. I am running 10 degrees of timing retard in places; I will know what this has done as soon as Autometer sends me the latest probe (the current probe has a grounding problem so it doesn't work).
I am really looking forward to seeing the before and after EGT's once I get some new injectors installed. That should be "cool" to see.
07-21-2006, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by <96 Runner>
I will know what this has done as soon as Autometer sends me the latest probe (the current probe has a grounding problem so it doesn't work).
, how did you know it was a grounding problem.
07-21-2006, 11:22 AM
#11
Registered User
Originally Posted by <96 Runner>
I am really looking forward to seeing the before and after EGT's once I get some new injectors installed. That should be "cool" to see.
07-21-2006, 11:30 AM
#12
Originally Posted by tour4fun
Please tell me more about this. I've got 2 of them. I thought one didn't work because of the wire, the sender and gauge seemed to work. I bought another one because you can't buy the wire by itself, it comes with the probe. Now that one is spinning around in crazy circles.
, how did you know it was a grounding problem.
, how did you know it was a grounding problem.
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