Hello All


I have a 1988 Toyota pick-up, 22RE, 4x4, 5 speed.
I have performed a complete engine overhaul about 800-900 miles ago, bottom to top. One day during a big snow storm(about 18 t0 29 inches on the ground)the engine died, was able to do a restart and almost got it into the parking area when it died for good.


When I try to get it started it will run for about 3 to 10 sec. and then die. I have replaced the ECU, Igniter/coil and ignition switch with no help. The fuel pressure at the cold start injector is great. I have gone through all of the fuses/fusible links with a meter all check out good.


I'm getting ready to do a step by step check all of the electrical system from the ECU per the Toyota FSM, basically I'm looking for a short cut if anyone has encountered this type of problem before.


Thanks much
WALT


P.S.
New fuel filter installed during overhaul..

 

I think there is a relay/timer for the cold start injector, it keep's it open until a certain temp is reached, I say "I think", kinda rings a bell on something I read, you might want to research that area.

Hope that helps...

 

got'er running and it looks good....

Thanks Jammer you were just a little off it was the temp. sw just to the
right of the cold start and it just needed cleaning up, had some oil in it...

Walt

 

Glad I could help

 

Well it just quit running again - went along just great for a week to 10 days and then just gave up -----

I'm now looking for the location of all the fuses and relays - I know that there are fuses in the left kick panel and some under the hood on the right side, I have no idea which fuses are which. I'm now trying to trace circuits and need to pull certien fuses to do this.. I have a complete set of FSM'S for this toy but they are no help-----


WALT

 

Walt, sorry to here...

I'm still trying to figure out where all my elec. goodies are...

What is it not doing besides running, ie, spark, fuel, ect?

I know that ground cables and straps play a big part of the elec. system, have read many times a broke or not hooked up ground has kept it from running, and a bad connection would make a intermittent problem...

Hope this helps...keep us posted.

 

walt,

are you still having problems with it?

 

Engines only need air, fuel, and spark to run...well compression too. It runs fine sometimes, so we should assume you have compression and proper timing, so the air is probably a given. The first thing I would do is put a timing light on it and crank it over and see if it flashes. If so, I'd start looking at why its not getting fuel.

The three big things that control fuel delivery are the air flow meter, a switch closes in it when air is flowing into the engine which turns on the fuel pump. This is so the fuel pump doesn't run with the engine off for safety reasons. I'm not suree off hand which pins to test this, but its certainly in your TSRM. Just hook your multimeter up to it and make sure the circuit closes when you push the flapper in the AFM open with your hand.

The EFI main relay, which supplies power to the entire fuel system. Its a little square bugger about an inch square that is located on the fuse panel in the driver side kick panel. Make sure you hear it click when you turn the key to run.

Finally the fuel pump itself. There are a number of different ways of checking this out. The TSRM will walk you through testing it pretty quick though.

Now if it isn't sparking, make sure you try your light on all four plug wires and work backwards from there. The spark is stopping somewhere and usually occurs near the distributor rather than the ECU. Do the usual checks...plug wires on all the way,distributor cap, plug condition, coil. If all those are good, then head twards the ECU.

 

Machine23
Yep, still having problems --

Jammer1313

Have tons of fuel pressure can start pump and can hear it running, I can open a fuel line and get a shower - using a remote switch I can get the starter to run but can't get spark that way - I removed the Ignition switch and gained access to the rear electrical side. It shows 12.6 volts with the Ignition switch in the off position, when switch is moved to the accessory position the voltage drops to 6 volts, when the switch is moved to the run position the voltage drops to 0.67 volts (yes that is zero point six seven volts) when the the switch is moved to the start position - nothing. It sure won't power any relays at 0.67 volts or anything else. To me it looks like I have a diode leaking to ground somewhere, but at this point just where is anybodies guess.

I have built some test gear(just some wire leads to allow me to connect to the connectors) to aide me in doing electrical trouble shooting, but not too sure just where some of the relays and fuses are located. Need to isolate some of the circuits to do continuity checks. Also have a 12 volt battery from a computer back-up power supply that I will try to activate the relays with.

I have checked the following:

1) Mass air flow meter
2) Throttle position indicator
3) Changed the coil and igniter (from the junk yard ran with both old and new)
4) Put in a junk yard computer (it ran for the week with this computer and the old one)
5) Checked out the cold start relay
6) Checked out the distributor ( this unit was rebuilt when the engine was rebuilt)
Refer back to my first post..

Stopped into the local Toyota dealer and talked with the service manager and one of his tech.s for about 45 mins. no joy they had no idea other than to ring out the wiring ? ? ? ?

WALT

 

Hey a7mgt thanks for the come back - love Morro Bay spent a couple of my honeymoons there ! ! !

You have a great routine there but I believe that i have covered all of them, thanks for that info.

Have something in my electrical system that pulls the voltage down, but can't find it.

Have one square plug in relay in the drivers kick panel and it says flasher on it's side, also have 2 round plug in relays of unknown use.


WALT0

 

That kind of voltage drop screams bad battery. There isn't anything in a car that can pull a good batterey down that far that fast without starting a fire. Replace that batterey with a know good one and my money says it sarts right up.

A bad battery can measure good voltage until its placed under a load, and then it'll drop quickly like you describe. A good battery contains enough power to quite literally melt a screwdriver placed across its posts, and would still probably have enough juice to start your truck assuming the molten screwdriver hadn't just destroyed it.

That said, do you stilll run the stock alternator? I've seen oversize alternators pull so hard they have stalled an idling engine.

 

BTW, if your current battery is shorted internally it can swallow A LOT of power, so just jumping it may not work as expected. It also can be extreamly dangerous because when this happens the battery tends to boil internally...the gasses from which are VERY explosive! So be carefull with it, and if you do jump it from another car, make sure you connect the cables to your truck first, and disconnect the cables from the other vehicle first to avoid a spark that has meant cosmetic surgery for many to get their acid burned faces back to normal..

 

Hey a7mgt I hear you and awesome words..

But no joy, hooked up my big battery charger, put it on start still wont start. the start position on the charger puts out 200 amps. Tomorrow I will pull the battery out of my dune buggy and put a top off charge on it and try it in the toy this should by-pass any dead cells.

Yes I still have my stock alternator installed..

I'm with you, just where is all this power going when I try to start nothing gets hot, no burning smells, and no fuses burning out.

I can hook up my remote start and spin the starter and engine..

I'm going on a relay search ------


WALT

 

I don't think the power is going anywhere, it sounds like the battery is swallowing it all up.

So it will crank over with the remote switch, but not with the key? When you cranked it over with the remote start switch, are you certain the key was in the run position? ...I've made that mistake more than once, so I gotta ask. I still feel like it's the battery though.

Do your high beams stay nice and bright for say, 5 mins if you leave them on? Does trying to start the truck make them go out; they should dim some, but not all the way. (Basically the quick and dirty battery/starter circuit test.) If they don't don't dim at all, check that pin "ST1" on the ignition switch is good, (see below) if it is then check that the power is making it to the starter from there.

When you took the voltage readings, it sounds like they were taken from the switch in the steering column? All those pins do something different when the key is turned. The good news is the pin #'s are cast into the plastic under each one, and only two should make any difference if the truck runs or not. Also, the following wire colors are according to the electrical schematic (source of all this info) for a 1988 4Runner. What it doesn't show on the schematic is that the colors often change at the main plug on the steering column. Meaning you may have to figure them out at the plug if they aren't right at the switch. They should be correct on the truck side of that plug at least.

The pin "ST1" is the one that supplies power to the starter when you turn the key to start. It's black with a white stripe, and ends up all black when it reaches the starter. It should read full voltage in the start position, and I believe only in that position or else the starter would stay engaged. For all intensive purposes, the only thing this wire does is activate the starter, and let the ECU know you are trying to start the truck. Obviously the voltage to this wire will drop a little when the truck is cranking over because of the load being placed on the battery, the amount of drop depends on the condition of the battery and the starter. It definitely] shouldn't drop to 6 volts though. This wire is not fused between the switch and the starter by the way. It does however pass though the neutral/safety /clutch switches, then the starter relay on it's way to the starter.

"IG2" is the one that powers your ignitor, coil, injectors, ECU, etc. It's black with a red stripe. It should have full voltage, but only in the 'RUN' and 'START' positions. (It's the same color on the ignitor and the coil for checking it under the hood.) This pin should measure the same as the battery when the key is set to 'RUN'. This wire also does not show any fuse between the switch and the ignitor, coil, and injector resistor, it also does not pass through any other switches on it's way there either, making it pretty quick to check. It looks like after those items though, it should pass through the 7.5 amp "IGN" fuse in the kick panel where it becomes black with a yellow stripe and powers the coil in the EFI main relay.(upper left pin in the socket if you remove the relay.)

"IG1" and "ACC" basically power everything else when the truck is running, but don't look like they shouldn't keep it from starting at all. "ST2" doesn't appear to do anything at all, and probably doesn't have a wire coming off of it at all. "AM1" and "AM2" should always be hot, and measure the same as the battery.

In short, just make sure "ST1" has power when turned to the start position, and "IG2" has power in both. If not, "IG2" gets it's power from pin "AM2" which is white with a red stripe; and "ST1" gets it's power from "AM1" which is a white wire. AM1 and 2 both get their power directly from the battery after going though several of the large fuses in the fuse box under the hood. So if either of them is dead, you know where to look.

Also, you're right about the square relay on the fuse panel, it is the flashers...the EFI main relay is the round one right under it. The starter relay is square, has four wires, all of them black aside from one that has a white stripe and one has red stripe...it should be located on the right side of the engine compartment next to the injector resistor. (A ribbed aluminum thing with three wires, maybe the size of a pack of cigarettes.)

Now, if I haven't confused you more than the TSRM does, we can keep going with this as far as needed to make it run again.

 

OK a7mgte

Changed batters today - no help---

I have not had the key in the run position while cranking the engine with the remote start switch..Must try this..

Did a complete run through of the ignition switch everything works except the car won't start. Oh by the way this is a new, from parts house switch.

I took the old switch and made a test tool out of it - I took each wire and striped some insulation out of the center then soldered a wire to it, this way I can look at the elec. power on each wire. AM1 and AM2 always have power at the ignition switch. I can take the AM2 wire and connect it to the ST1 and the engine will crank - but when I connect AM2, ST1 and IG2 the system dies, engine will not crank, voltage drops to zip.... I have run a complete continuity check on this switch and all check out good. this check was off of the car ie bench check.

Head lights will not come on at all. Can't get any of the dash lights to come on, radio will not come on windshield wipers will not work, no horn volt meter will not show battery voltage - all of the above is with the ignition switch in either accessory or run position

Worked on the start relay today and it seems to do everything advertised, except start the car.

Will be gone all day tomorrow (Wed) must make a trip to Reno...

Gee guy thanks for all of the help, you have picked up things that I have missed.

WALT

 

Did you try powering IG2 through AM1 as well?

 

Yes I did that one also

 

Ok, so the AMx wires have power but the chassis does not. Double check the fuses in the box under the hood. Namely the three big square ones that have little clear plastic tops on them. Those little tops snap off of them so you can test them all for power too, if the clip tabs break on those lids, it's just a couple drops of super glue to hold it back on. If you try pulling one of the primary fuses, those don't just pull out as the wires they feed are actually bolted to the fuses tabs. There is a push release by them, so they should just pop up though the fuse box you can get to their connections if you like.

Ever seen a fuse crack but not blow? I have, but not until I was ready to pepper the car with bullet holes.

 

Also, you say you have the TSRM for the truck; is that the actual book, or the PDF on your computer?

 

Go try your emergency flashers real quick... do they work? (With the key off.) I going to take a wild guess here and say your flashers didn't work. Your headlights are what made it click for me.

I'd imagine you're gonna have a lot of time to think on the road tomorrow, so consider this...

Why the flashers? Because when all systems are functioning properly your headlights and your flashers both operate without the key in the ignition at all, in fact they will also continue to function regardless of the key position. Which means that they are completely independent circuits from the trucks other electrical systems. Meaning nothing makes them work, and no condition must be present for them to operate other than a simple on off switch. Aside from the primary chassis power fuse, (the flashers actually go through the "haz-horn" fuse also, but that's irrelevant.) they get their power directly from the battery. They also both use different ground points. Since neither of them work, we can fairly safely say that it's not a ground problem, it must be a hot problem...after all, what are the odds of at least two ground points failing at once?

This means that you'll find the source of all your troubles within the fuse block under the hood between the primary chassis fuse and the battery. I'd imagine after all of this that you did make sure your battery cables are clean and tight right? Which means that there are only two things that could have failed. One is the very large wire that runs from the positive battery post to the primary fuse, and the other is the primary fuse itself. Since large gauge wires tend not to fail, and fuses are designed specifically to fail, you might as well pick yourself up a new primary fuse tomorrow at your favorite auto parts store while you're out. (It's the black 80 amp one.)

My guess is that it's just really corroded rather than blown in a typical sense. Either the fuse itself has failed rather than blown, or the terminals hidden below it are very corroded. Either way, for about $5 and few mins...your truck is gonna run again.