1988 4runner - 22R-E Automati
Well i dont really get the concept of the torsion bars. Is there anything i can do to these to get more flex out of my IFS? I know i have them i just dont know if they are the stock ones or not?any input much appreiciated thanks.
JVD

 

Well did your truck have any mods when you got it?
If not then most chances are you have the stockers.

As for the concept... If you take a rubber band and twist it up, it will spring back to its original shape right? Thats about as simple as the idea gets, the torsion bar is twisted, and since it wants to go back to its original state it pushes the wheels to the ground.

If you want more flex, get a set of BJ spacers and relax the torsion bars a little.

 

Wont Ball Joint Spacers lift my front up though. Are they easy to put in too?

 

That depends on the t-bar adjustment you have now and the t-bar adjustment after installing them. Also I believe you can get thinner spacers if you ask.

They are pretty easy to install if you can handle a little grinding and have some basic tools. Read the install instructions through and that will give you an idea.

1.5" spacers are a little on the thick side IMHO. I think 1" would be a great thickness for them and I'm pretty sure Frank will make them. If not anyone with a mill could easily take 1/2" off for you.

 

Torsion Bar tech article:
- http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/torsion_bars/

Ball joint spacer information:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...ntSpacer.shtml

 

Believe it or not a stiffer thicker torsion bar will help.

The reason is that if you crank up a stock bar it's reaching the end of how much it can twist.
A bar that's a little bigger and stiffer won't need as much preload and can then flex more.

Also replace the upper snubbers with low profile ones.


Beyond that, you start getting into bigger mods and a lot more $

 

So if you go with something like an OME bar (cranked down) & BJ spacers, you will get more flex & a smoother ride?

-jeff

 

There you go, they're made in three sizes now and 4Crawler is a great guy to deal with. What you need to figure out now is how much adjustment room your t-bars have to the down side and order the spacers that raise you back up to the height you want. There is a limit as to how far down you can go with the adjustment and the limit is the length of threads on the adjustment bolt. I've got mine adjusted to the max down right now and that leaves the threads a little below flush with the nut. In other words, you want ideally for the bolt to go all the way through the adjustment nut.

 

I have 1" BJ spacers and 26mm torsion bars. I also removed the sway bar which helps with flex too.

 

ONLY without Bj spacers. With BJ spacers, those will allow your downtravel to push your CV's beyond the limit, and you will destroy them in short order.

 

That's what Downey tells everyone anyway. Not sure I believe it though, and what's the point of max twist anyway? Isn't the point of max twist the same point at which the bar snaps in half? How many of us have taken the t-bars to the max twist point? I've never seen anyone break a t-bar, but I have seen a Baja truck that ripped the rear adjustment mount off the frame.

I know the yield point of the t-bar has been reached for many and if you're having to always re-adjust your t-bars to stay at the same height then I'd say look at buying a thicker bar.

 

is sway-a-way a good set of bars? it's quoted around $350 at local 4x4 shop
or should I buy downey's online? anyways how much are downeys.
just need to rise torsions an inch or two to fit tires under there.

 

kountry_boi, Many here have complained about SAW's. Have a look at Old Man Emu t-bars. They are the only ones worth buying.

 

Ok, I have to chime in here. In the past, there has been much misinformation as far as what makes our trucks flex, preload, etc... and this much resembles it. Thicker torsion bars will not help.

Preload: That's the weight of your truck sitting on the wheels. If you don't make your truck heavier and don't lift it by adjusting the torsion bars, you don't increase the preload. If you lift the truck by adjusting the torsion bars, you DECREASE the preload on the torsion bars. If you need a mathematical explanation I can provide one but usually that seems to go somewhat unrecognized. Obviously, adding weight to the front of the truck increases the preload.

Stiffer bars flex less. This is simply a property of the spring, coil, torsion, whatever. You put a stiffer spring in anything, it will take more force to flex it. If you want flex, you need to either put in a softer spring, increase the force on it, or do both. Putting in a stiffer torsion bar will decrease what little flex you have. Unless you are jumping your rig a lot or have a heavy winch/bumper combo, there is no reason to put in a stiffer torsion bar. You will simply get less flex for a given amount of force if you do install a stiffer torsion bar.

Ball joint spacers will increase flex because they slightly lengthen the upper control arm and there for increase the torque on the spring for a given amount of force. They also increase the window of travel thus aiding flex.

As for over flexing the torsion bar, I had 14" of travel on my 89 4runner with a 4" bracket kit, very short bompstop blocks, and ball joint spacers. That truck was beat on hard and over 6 years never had an issue with its original torsion bars. I wouldn't worry about over flexing them with a stock truck + ball joint spacers ever. Again, if you need a mathematical representation of the resulting shear forces relative to yield strength I'm happy to supply that as long as it will get read.

Frank

 

I think I bent my stock driver side t-bar right after I got my truck in '02. I had taken it out rock-climbing one day, no jumps or baja'ing around. Got back on the hardball road & had a LOUD rattle every time I hit a bump. Replaced upper & lower balljoints...still rattled. I decided to deal with it. A few months later I read the write up at 4x4wire & replaced the T-bars with the SAW's. I then noticed that the rattle was gone. On my truck, there is a body screw that protrudes very close to the driver side t-bar & either the bar bent or the whole cab shifted enough to make contact. AND this all happened before any of the mod's you see below.

 

You would have had to hit the bar on something to bend it. That's typically rather hard to do since it is sandwiched between the frame and body.

Lots of things can rattle and if you set the ride height different when the new bars were installed it could have had an effect. Or, maybe you fixed it when messing with something else, who knows.

I'll say though, that's a different symptom/fix for sure.

Frank