i think you will probably know when you need it for sure, like when the IFS is shot and it comes time to either rebuild all of it or swap it out, that seems like a good time to consider it and also much more cost effective. I do also understand wanting something and knowing you won't be satisfied until you have it. I wanted to SAS my old pathfinder using a radius arm set-up and coils/coilovers 3 years ago. I sold it and bought my 4runner instead, something i still kinda regret. now that i have started modifying my 4runner i know that one day it will probably end up with an SAS whether i need it or not it is something i want. It won't happen anytime soon and it won't happen while it still needs to be a daily driver. Thats why i bought front and rear 3rds built with 5.29's and manual hubs, i bought all this stuff used, for less than i could rebuild a junkyard dana 44 for. It makes more sense to me, a small body lift, maybe just some trimming and 35's and i will be satisfied.

 

Shazad, you'll have to come wheeling with me again, before I'd ever recommend for you to SAS that thing. I'll have to take you on the hard trails up at Windrock and Tellico, and I think it just takes bigger and bigger balls, including skill to surpass the IFA capabilities if driven correctly. Let's plan another trip to Windrock ro something, and I'll show you some stuff you probably won't even run, but can be run with IFS with 33" tires.

Chris

 

well the daily driver thing is a non issue for me. I have other vehicles I can drive after a weekend of breaking things. I don't use it as a daily driver now, but it does still see some paved roads, and after a SAS I'd still like to be able to drive it on the road regularly if need be.

And I know the IFS is great, and it can do a lot. I know I can probably do 110% of the trails I do now with the set up I currently have (except get rid of the MT/Rs). But did you ever get that bug where you know your just not going to be happy until you get exactly what you want .. thats kinda what I'm feeling. I've seen a few SASed 3rd gens online, and I saw 44runner's in person, and thats the direction I see my truck headed in. I know I don't "need" this to do the trails and the type of wheeling I do. But its something I'd like to see done.

Brian, I agree with you on doing this myself. I had absolutely no experience working on cars before this one. I would just take it to the shop and let the guys do it. I've done a lot of the work on this truck myself, and the rest I was standing right there watching as they did it. So I've gained some knowledge. But I don't have any experience welding, and this isn't really something I want to be my first go at.

My only decision now is wether or not to spend the money putting a locker in the front of the IFS now and wheel it for a few more years (2 years tops), while I slowly gather parts for the SAS. Or just go all out and do what I want the first time, and not wait. I have a possible great deal on a RD90 that I'll know about by next week. If that goes through then I'll just lock the front for now.

Steve I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I click on the link, and when it says open or save. First I clicked open, and it won't let me. then I saved it, and tried opening from the desktop, and it still won't let me. if its not too big of a deal, can you just cut and paste the parts, and prices. thanks

Chris, were definitely going to go out again. Even though Tellico is 10 hours away, being able to run with you makes it worth the drive down there again. If anyone can prove you don't need a SAS, its you. Hell the way you drive you could probably do it without tires. But like I said, I just want to try something different.

 

so it sounds like you know you don't need to SAS, but you just want to. period. i kinda know the feeling, but you gotta weigh what you want vs cost/consequences/need. if SAS wins, so be it. if IFS wins, you still have a damn nice, capable 4runner.

i'll say i'm kinda rooting for you to get that front arb locker, then eventually SAS is so you can sell the RD90 to me.

 

i know how it feels to just want to do something, that is why mine will probably end up with an SAS too. It won't be anytime soon though. I want it to be done and i want to do it, considering i have very few of the tools necessary and don't have the skills needed it will definitely not be happening anytime soon. With my 4runner currently at 141k miles i don't plan on ever selling it, it is worth much more to me than anyone else.

 

Swaps are really cool to talk about on the internet and post the same lame pic posing on one rock and calling it wheeling.

If you don't have a front locker now, you don't need a solid axle now. Unless of course you want to be one of the cool people who has a solid axle with an open front end.

The swap will not be done well for less than 3k in parts since it sounds like you are going all off the shelf. Tell yourself 5k in parts and that is without wheels and tires.

Get to the stage where you can do it all or mostly by yourself. That way you will know how to fix things when they break.

 

Do you have Microsoft Excel installed on your computer?

 

nope .....

 

the only reason it doesn't have a front locker now is b/c I wanted a locker for the last wheeling trip, and if I wanted front and rear locked, along with regearing and the OBA the guy wanted the truck for 3 days .. so I just opted for the rear which took less then a day to install. but if I do SAS, then it will be locked up front as well. I just don't want to install a rd90 now, and then have to get a new locker for the new axle.

 

That's what made me hold off for a while too. I thought of it as an unrecoverable expense. Guess what - there will be a line around the block for your front diff with ARB when you go to sell it. You'll be able to recover probably 75% or more of the investment.

I also have grand plans of a SAS, but I know it isn't going to happen now. I even have a deal in place for the front axle - just need to pick it up. I'm going to wheel the piss out of my rig as is with IFS, two lockers and 33's for now. Meanwhile, I'll be building up the axle with longs, crossover steering, gears and another ARB, etc. Then, when I do the swap, I'll have everything ready - that I will have built - so I can troubleshoot it

I suggest looking at the terrain that Steve S, Steve O, BruceTS, and Adrian (and others) do on a regular basis with IFS and two lockers. Nothing against our coast, but the terrain out west looks to be a bit tougher on equipment.

If you are breaking IFS parts left and right then it is definitely time. Have you broken a CV yet? If the IFS is really holding you back, then I guess your decision is made.

 

Doing something so custom to your rig demands that you have the skills to fix things when they break, or a close knit group of friends near by who do, or a big fat wallet with lots of $$$ cause that is what custom work costs to troubleshoot and that is assuming you can find someone who is technically capable and does good work.

I've read and read and read and read until my eyes are blurry, and I still think it is much simpler, at least in my brain, to get a rig already setup with a SAS and then mod it from there, thus the 85 4Runner, as I can do almost all of it myself and know the rig inside out and upside down so WHEN, not if, but WHEN something breaks I'll know how to do it myself and not have to pay someone $$$ to do it.

However, if your heart is set on SAS, I say GO FOR IT, cause we only live once and I don't want to end up one day 50 years old with a long list of "what ifs" and regrets.

Good luck! No go study those books Shahzad!



P.S. I got out of having to take the PE and got a raise to boot. Amazing!

 

Well then that would explain everything. Download and install the FREE Microsoft Excel Viewer and welcome yoursefl to the wonderful world of spread sheets.

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...S/xlViewer.exe

 

Here is the bottom line. You don't NEED a SA (streight axle) but if you WANT a SA, Plan on 10 Grand for someone to do all the labor and parts and for them to spend a little time de-bugging it.



I very seriously considered it. To the point of calling Brian Ellinger and talking to him in length about it on the phone for over an hour and a half. I wanted to do a 3" lift SAS and he explained why 5" was the lowest. We talked about my experience with Rockstomer, his brother and I was satisfied that his parts would not be the same. But in the end. I can do what I want to do. If I push the envelope any further I'll take body damage and as the wise old man from Prescott said, your pretty much looking at salvage value at that point.

So I bought an 1989 FJ-62 with a factory installed SA with massive 9" front and rear diffs. Without a doubt the flagship of the Toyota truck line. I installed $2000 worth of Old Man Emu leaf springs, shocks, special anti-inversion shakles, poly bushings, etc. I WAS going to be the "Man" with my SA. Nothing cold stop me as I drove my bad ass big old Toyota SA out to FR-42 a high articulation trail near Carefree. I was the "Man" you know and I had a fricken SA, I was soo pumped up and on my way to being the next ARCA King! 9" diffs, ARB's dam, I was built and stong, my mightly FJ-62 was sporting the best Austrailia could off in suspension. I was about to explode!!!


So you know what happened. It drove the trail. Just like my 4Runner drove the trail. Where was my orgasm? Why had the excitement died? Wait..... I think it's doing better than the 4Runner, no I guess not. Oh well, Erika really likes it alot, it is her favorite vehicle ever. So now my wife drives my mighty 9" Toyota SA to work every day. I don't care, I let it go. You know why I could. Because I did NOT cut my truck up and I didn't have to justify the huge amount of money so I could drive the same trail, the same.


Now on the flip side, If I had an 86 to 95 IFS anything you bet your sweet booty I'd cut that garbage off. But I honestly think the coil front is very good with the RD90 and the Manual Hub conversion.

 

And, if you look at the travel people are experiencing with their SA's, it's not as much or only slightly more than a long-travel IFS kit from companies like camburg, total chaos, Inland trucks, and ESB fabrications. In fact, I was looking into to doing it myself, and after seeing most travel around 15" or less, I'd buy the ESB fabrications kit that provides more travel, and it mostly be bolt on.

Chris

 

You know, I think the boy is onto something here. You want your 4Runner to "stand out", right? Do an IFS long travel. Bruces 4Runner drew more ohhhhhhhhhhhh and ahsssssssss by far than mine on aftershock. We both did fine, but his 4Runner got more attention. He was also able to go very fast in the sand washes which I can not do.

Arizona has drit and rocks, not sand like California so I'm fine. If I lived in So Cal I would long travel, but I don't live there.

 

You make a good point Steve! It's a 'ah' factor for most people, it seems. On the other hand, my modifications are for 99% function, and 1% looks, mostly.

Chris

 

Where might someone find a long travel kit for a 2nd gen? Links?

NM found it.

 

Weigh the gains versus cost on the IFS BLING versus a solid axle. Price ends up comparable. Travel is not and neither is strength.

There is one clear cut answer to getting front travel, improved strength and coolness on the internet and that is a solid axle.

Lock the front. If you are doing the swap tomorrow, then it would be a waste, but if it is a couple years down the road, then do it. Realistically assess when the swap will happen. Realize it will proably not be within the year, so getting a years use out of what is presumably a serious trail rig if it needs a solid axle makes a lot of sense.

 

Can you show me some rigs that have achieved 18" of front travel after their SAS, because the last one I read about only had 11.25" of travel after their SAS.I'm not sure on the travel aspect, but I'll agree with you on the other two factorsChris

 

There is no mistakeing a true long travel kit. It will be just as much eye candy. I've been to California twice now to wheel and there was no mistakeing Fear or Bruce.

It's got the look.