rah1420

Or massive confusion, take your pick.

I've been reading a lot about driveline components, both here and on 4X4wire and other web sites. Seen the cool stuff from ORT and a lot of the other manufacturers. Seen the web sites about manual hubs (which I am looking forward to getting) and locking diffs (which I'm also looking forward to getting, but less looking forward to paying for.)

A lot of the stuff I've seen raises more questions than it answers. Take my '91 Runner, for example. Everything that I've read says that Toyota started with the ADD hubs in mid-late 90s. I can't find much about what they did earlier for hubs and diffs. And the matter is further confused by my looking at my hubs, which clearly say that they are "ADD" hubs. I also have a plate that says my vehicle was manufactured in May 1991.

I guess what I'm trying to find out is:

1) How do I find out what kind of "raw material" I have to work with?
2) Is there a "4X4 'yota driveline components for dummies" web site somewhere? Or someone who can explain it to a dummy? Or a FAQ?
3) When I find out the answer to this, I should be able to get an unambiguous answer to what I'll be able to do with this 4Runner, related to driveline components.

To the anticipated question "What do you want to accomplish" I would say that I want a reliable off road machine, not an extreme rockcrawler, something that will get me into and out of stuff. Manual hubs and a locking differential in the rear (or front and rear if I can hide the expense from my wife) sounds like it's pretty much the prescription.

The other amenities -- the sliders, pans, suspension, etc. are easy. The driveline stuff I just can't seem to get my arms around.

Thanks. This post was long, but hopefully not too boring.

BajaTaco

Here's a hint...

http://www.4x4wire.com/lists/toyota/.../msg00185.html

BajaTaco

Looks like these guys have a conversion kit - you should call them and see what they know...

http://www.louisville4x4.com/lockouts.htm

rah1420

So from what I got off of that web site, installing manual hubs in place of the ADD ones should almost be a shade tree job, not the horrible mess that ORS makes this job out to be with pressing bearings and the like.

That sounds awfully good to me. Thanks for the pointer. Guess I gave up too early.

BajaTaco

I also saw a note from this guy on an old mail list... he had used older Toy manual hubs on his '91 Runner. You should send him an email and ask about it...

http://www.mindspring.com/~jayk3/toyota/

mtnfreak

4X4 Wire also offers This Page. and This One.
I'm sure there are others out there, but I haven't found them yet.

BajaTaco

Here, read this...

"Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:03:55 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: ARE MY HUBS LOCKED...OR NOT?
To: Toyota 4x4 List

breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer) wrote:

>Considering the high cost, time and effort involved versus the miniscule
>benefit gained, I'm amazed at the number of people who've said that
>they've changed from ADD to manuals. For the way I use my truck, ADD
>hubs are worth their weight in gold.

Actually the cost was $25 for a set of stock junk yard hubs, plus about
$3 for all new bolts and washers. Total time spent was about two hours
including disassembly, cleaning, painting, and reassembly.

I now have the choice of freewheeling the front tires or locking them to
the axles. Unlocking the hubs saves a bit of gas, but more importantly
saves wear and tear on the front suspension and driveline. With the
CVs stopped, boot wear is reduced significantly......and if you've ever
pulled one of those #&!^#$^% driveaxles out, you know it's a pain.

Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY) ADD on her '91 4Runner"

Sounds like a simple deal.

Flygtenstein

ADD is a vaccuum operated system that slides a collar connecting the short shaft on the passenger side with the front diff.

The pieces of steel at the wheel are drive flanges. Not hubs or anything of the like.

You can easily swap the drive flanges for manual hubs, but your ADD is not affected at all.

The main advantage to this is that the front end, and most importantly the CV's do not spin unless you are in 4wd.

The ultimate in strength and convenience upgrades is to disable the ADD permanently so that all you need to do is lock the hubs.

rah1420

I have heard that all you need to do to accomplish that is engage the ADD, then cap the vaccum lines.

Mad Chemist

I'm not sure I understand how all of this works, to be honest. Can you inactivate ADD and still retain automatic locking hubs (3rd gen specifically)?

Terry4X4

ADD was great when driving up to the mountains in the Winter and to shift into 4hi all you needed was to pull your shifter and continue your trip without stopping.

The benefits of manual hubs are described above. If you plan for a locker in the front you will need manual hubs.

Try to find Aisin hubs instead of Warn Premium hubs. Myself and others I know have had problems with keeping the Warn hubs tight. Twice I've sheared the studs off the hubs. Both times I tried EZ outs to get them out, but was unsuccessful and had to replace the wheel hub assy. I've seen it happen also on the Rubicon, only the poor guy sheared both sides going up Cadillac Hill. :cry:

Aisins instead of Warm Premiums.

Glenn

You don't have automatic locking hubs in the first place, so the question can't be answered.

What you do have is Automatic Differential Disconnect, which slides a collar on the axle to engage 4wd.

Inactivating the ADD system means you will have no 4wd. The collar won't slide, and you can't engage the hubs manually.

Flygtenstein

Or, if you do as I said before, slide the collar and plug the lines, then you are actually disengaging ADD, not just adding manual hubs.

On a 3rd Gen rig that still has drive flanges, it would not be a good plan at all. Sort of the antithesis of adding manual hubs. Everything from the spiders outboard would sping in 2wd.

PAhydrohead

Rah,

I see you made it out to Paragon. I am looking forward to making it out there the next time somebody organizes a trip. This weekend's plans sort of fell apart.

The stock 4Runner is a pretty capable vehicle. You probably found that out at Paragon. When I added my rear ARB locker, I still had 31" BFG ATs, no lift, totally stock front end and it made a HUGE difference. Definately the best spent money to date. If you are going to add a lift, then your gonna want bigger tires, new wheels, new gears, new, new, new.... $$$$$$$$ and the wife will probably have a fit! I wish I had the money to spend on that stuff but I don't. I still have my stock front diff with the ADD (hate to admit that) and I ran the Rubicon in CA with it like that.

When the ADD strands me somewhere or when I could have avoided some body damage by unlocking one front hub while the other was still locked is the day l'll change over to Asians. Till then I don't get out wheeling enough anymore (read two boys under the age of five) to justify changing to manual hubs although from everything I've read on a 2nd gen it is a pretty easy job and it doesn't involve pressing in new bearings anywhere.

New rear HD springs will really improve the look and cornering ability of your Runner and they add a little lift. Put a locker in the rear, add some agressive 32s on your stock alloy rims and you'll soon be runnin' the reds at Paragon.

Hope to see you out on the trail!

Bill

rah1420

We had a blast. My neighbor has a Land Rover (don't hold it agin' him) and he saw my muddy Runner. (He's actually very jealous of my Runner, was looking around for one like it.) He's hot to go up, we might fart around on the trails come mid November if the weather holds. My neighbor's a hunter, so he says it'd have to be a Sunday - and it has to be after my son's football is over on the 9th.

I am amazed at what I was able to do with the 4Runner that was causing the others fits. I was sure I'd get in trouble but "Mr. 4" just kept on truckin'.

You mention that the ARB locker in the rear was a huge thing. The only thing that impressed me about the Aisins/Warns (and I have heard that Warn half-turns are better than the quarter turns) is as you said, the low-buck thing. I sure don't want to be dropping a grand on a locker and install, because it's a sure bet I'm not gonna install that sucker.

Hmm, food for thought. I know the tires won't be first -- I'm running Bridgestone Dueler 31s and I just bought them. A lot of it has to do with my trail experience too -- I've only run one trail, so my knowledge is minimal but I have lots of room for experience. Thanks for the encouragement and if we firm up a Paragon trip in mid November I'll post here and on the Paragon board, see if anybody's willing to come pull Land Rovers out of the mud.

PAhydrohead

Yea, the ARB was definately worth the money but it was at least around $1K and that was six years ago.

Keep me updated on the trip plans.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Here's what you need to know about ADD

This will help understand the various front hubs

upndair

Not quite true. You can disable it by doing so, but there is still a weak point. The long shaft has a setup for the vacuum activated fork. This is a real weak point. Coming from the guy that breaks everything... I broke one of these. While I was still running IFS, I removed the ADD system completely by using parts from a NON-IFS rig.