Hey all,
Probably a stupid question, but here goes. I've been thinking seriously about doing an engine swap in my 2nd gen 4runner. I really like the idea of swapping in a manual while I'm at, but I'm not sure what is really best for off-roading or rock crawling. Right now my 4runner is just a 2wd, but I'm thinking about doing a Supra engine with a Supra 5spd, a divorced t-case and a solid axle up front.

Anyways, just wondering what you all thought would be the better tranny choice.

Thanks! Have fun all.
Daniel

 

I've got a manual in mine and I really like it. Its better for gas milage and funner to drive. However, the more and more I have fun, I think an auto would suit me better. Now saying that, it would have to be a well built auto, no sloppy shifting, or weakness. Advantages to autos are more pulling ability, not having to worry about gears when offroading, ease of install of remote start, internal mechanical brake as opposed to relying on compression and e-brake, and the beauty of a torque converter. with a well built auto and a fitted torque converter, you can be at a higher RPM at lower speeds compared to a manual, and have the torque multiplication. Its all a matter of personal choice. I have an auto laying around, but I plan on keeping my manual until something more dramatic changes. I also think manuals are a litle stouter in general, usually the only thing you'll eat is a clutch. Which reminds me, if your out crawling or trying to get up a hill, trying to use a clutch you can burn it up, or if it doesn't have enough clamping force, you wont get all the power to the wheels. Also with a manual, if you cross deep water, and change gears (release the clutch) you can get water inbetween the clutch and flywheel, causing a loss of friction, and power losseses. Hope this helps.

 

Autos are better for climbing an obstacle, it's much smoother. Manuals are better for decending an obstacle because they have better compression braking than an normal auto.

But...throw in a crawler with the manual and you have the best of both worlds. Smooth up and smooth down.

 

Or put a crawler on an auto.

I have seen too many people trash stock clutches when trying to wheel slow and controlled or hammer through things that I walked with an auto.

As for the compression braking, I never had a problem with that before the crawler and I sure don't now.

 

I've had times when I wish I had more compression braking going down long, steep, slippery hills. Other than that it's not too bad.

 

Thanks for the help!

So, from what I gather so far, I guess the best route would be just to keep an auto and add a crawler. It sure would make the swap a lot easier! Although, it would be fun to smoke a riced out Civic which I think a manual would be better for, but I guess I just need to get my priorities straight. Ultimate sleeper 4runner or sweet trail 4runner. Shoot, I should just have 2 4runners. That would solve everything. :

Anybody know if the 20R/22R/22RE auto tranny will mount to a Supra engine (7mg)?
Or, I wonder if I could get a custom crawler case made to mount a Supra auto tranny to a gear driven t-case. Well, more stuff to figure out…

Thanks for all the help and thanks for having patience with my ignorance on this subject.

Have fun all.
Daniel

 

You only got a couple responses here. Try a search, this has been asked before and you'll find more responses. You'll also need to research which auto trannies accept a dual transfer case, not all do.

 

Check www.downeyoff-road.com or Advance adapters.....they miht have info on that swap.

I like having my manual off road. I ahve a tendency to stall it when climbing abrupt obstacles......but that's probably just cuz I am a cruddy driver.

Auto would be more peace of mind when it works.....but when they break I think it is more of a headache than a manual.

 

If you want to do some serious offroading and aren't planning on getting a crawler, I'd say stick with the auto. I have a manual right now and without a a crawler it can be tough at times trying to SLOWLY and steadily climb through rocks without smoking the clutch. Hey if you just want to hammer through that's another story but I want to be able to drive back home in one piece!

 

Go with the auto.most pro rock crawlers use them.manuals will give a lower crawl ratio but an auto will never let the engine stall.Its something to think about next time your climbing a wicked hill.It can be down right hair raising to have the engine cut out during a steep climb,losing all your forward momentum and having to get it going again with out spining your tires and braking traction.

 

Thanks everyone! You all have been a great help! Sorry about the late reply--my hard drive just went out. It looks like I may stick with an auto, but I'll have to figure which ones will bolt to a crawler. On Merlins site, it appears that he only makes a crawler for the 3.4 auto tranny. So, I may be back to thinking about a divorced t-case with a supra auto tranny now. :I dunno: Just thinking out loud.

I thought I read that if I connected a crawler to a manual, that I wouldn't have to worry about stalling with the lower gear engaged and that I could just let up on the clutch without any gas. Did I misunderstand?

Thanks all.
Daniel

 

We neglected to mention that if an auto tranny is low on fluid you don't move. In a pinch, you can put just about any fluid in a manual tranny to get you off the trail.

With low enough gears in a crawler, you can stand on your brakes and you won't be able to stop the truck at idle.

Here's another perspective: http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...5&o=14&fpart=1

 

while my truck has been down, i've been driving 3 different automatic vehicles. the more i drive them, the more i hate driving autos. i hate the lack of throttle response i have(unless i mash the pedal), i can't stand not being able to pick my own gears, especially while climbing a hill(mash the pedal, hear the engine bog down and rattle then finally shift).

it's all a matter of preference, personally i cannot stand driving anything with an automatic, and will never own one.

 

One more thing to consider, my 22RE likes to idle pretty quickly. This weekend I was behind a bunch of 4.0 wranglers and they idle slower so they can crawl along in 1st gear 4hi. My 1st gear 4hi is pretty quick, so I had to either keep clutching or run in 3 gear 4lo. An auto would have been easier in that instance. Then again an auto couldn't keep it in 4lo and start up in 3rd....so I guess manual proved itself again.

 

are you sure about that? In AZ I asked Adrian that same question and he said you never get going fast enough to where the brakes are overpowered by the crawler gears.

 

It seems to be a concern with a lot of people, mostly about auto trannies though:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31248

I could have sworn I read about not being able to stop with a manual tranny too.

 

i guess it depends on the setup you run. a simple solution would be to just throw it into neutral whenever you want to stop.

 

I resemble that remark...not any more though. My new clutch is very sticky, it's either in or out.

 

[Cheese] I can stand on my brakes in double low and it will stop. I can stand on the gas and all it does is scream. If I need to stop in a hurry, I grab neutral.

I am not sure there are too many autos in Toys with more power and gearing than I have. With the 5.29 diff gears and double low, I am at 156:1 without TC lock up. A factor of two makes it uber low.

Jim, you only stink some times.

Casey, I should have let you drive the rig to mess with that.[/Cheese]

 

Yeah, I guess it depends on what gears are in the cases. At least one person on marlin's board says a manual tranny with dual ultimates can't stop.
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=7899.0

Steve, can you stop?