A stand alone EMS doesn't guarantee good idle with high flowing fuel injectors (i.e. 1600cc). You will still have issues controlling the fuel flow at low duty cycles.

If you want a lot of fuel injection without sacrificing idle, add more fuel injectors.
You can also choose a fuel injector size that isn't too big, but higher flowing than the stock injectors (compromise).

Of course, it's more work for stand alones and even more to work to fab new fuel rails/mill manifolds for more injectors.

Depending on your application, I would imagine you would want to have closed loop functionality. A dragster may not care for closed loop, but a daily driver could benefit from closed loop.

 

Ummm, is that whole thing a question? (I know, it's early...)

Going standalone is usually reserved for people that are racing or just pure geeks that want to do it 'cause they can. I want to do it 'cause I'm a geek and I can.

Standalone will get you the ultimate control over EVERYTHING and ANY time - loopedness not withstanding!

But, it comes at a price. A MegaSquirt system is probably the most economical (about $500 to run the MegaSquirt II which includes ignition support) but the system requires that you understand programming (in C) to get it running. Install is "easy" in the sense that it's a wire to each injector, crankshaft and camshaft sensor, coil(s), one or more of MAF/MAP/TPS, and O2. But getting things to play well can be a long process.

 

Oh well, I don't really want to go too wild anyway. Once I have the URD and VB done, the suspension will be getting all of the attention.

 

Masta,

There are a few around NM that can help your tune once you have
everything.

 

I had a side thought on the way to work this morning...

When we're volleying back & forth about how crappy piggybacks are, and what the 7th can & can't do, we should keep in perspective that we're only really complaining about fuel delivery in closed loop. All of the piggyback systems (including the 7th) have no issues with controlling timing in closed or open loop. And of course, the piggybacks are fine controlling fuel in open loop.

Bottom line - the ECU won't fight against timing... only fuel in closed loop.

Which brings up the SplitSecond ESC1:
http://splitsec.com/products/esc1/esc1ds.htm

or, from URD here:
http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1120100003

 

Mark,

Masta should be getting the FTC-E (IIRC) that has the ESC1 already built into the unit since he has a '98.

 

Yeah, I think Brian's gonna be okay... I spouted more for the banter I was in with Super Doody and the general masses that may be looking over our shoulder.

I wanted to try to set a focus... The ESC1 has come up before in other discussions and I felt it was worth working it into this one to.

 

I cna't agree with you more!

 

I pick up the 4Runner on the 24th. Only two weeks until the mayhem begins...

 

By the way I took the first step (partly so I can't change my mind again). The dual gauge pod is on its way!

I order the URD stuff Wed next week!

 

Beware all... I just bit the bullet and ordered an ESC1 - I finally decided that I HAD to get my truck out of Closed Loop. argh.

Express Mail up the west coast so I'll be installing it on Saturday... There's a good possibility that a LOT of (fun!) stuff will be getting installed on Saturday. This could be trouble... expect a "ARGH" post on Monday.

 

:bigclap:

 

Congrats! Now all you need is that bulletproofed transmission and you're good to go!

 

I agree with your decision to go with the wideband and BR3 over the other options. There are only so many gauges you can reasonably fit in the interior and as I found with my Supra, you can't be checking them all at once when you're at WOT anyways. I initially used EGTs to tune, but anyone who has messed with this for long enough will tell you that a lean mixture will raise temps and a rich mixture can also raise EGTs from excess fuel burning in the combustion chamber. So basically you don't really know what the air/fuel ratio is, but you're better off than not having done anything at all.

Once I bought the PLX wideband, I removed the EGT gauge because it simply wasn't needed. The BR-3 is the final tool you need to see what the ECU is doing and you can adjust accordingly.

Have fun!
Ken

 

heh... yeah. I'm jumping the gun again and bypassing what I really need to do (the tranny) but right now the truck's running like such a pig I've thought of trading it for a Ford so that I'd have an easier excuse!

 

Yeah, I'm going to get the PLX M-250 with black faced gauge to go in a dual-gauge pod (along with the boost gauge), and then the OBD-II BR-3 Scan Tool. With these two items I can just tune using Gadget's U-Tune guide (which I have printed out ready to go). Also, I like the idea of DIRECTLY reading the AFR rather than trying to guess based on a plethora of inderect gauges. This option is also best for me because this will officially be the first time I have tuned any kind of engine, let alone a supercharged beast like this 4Runner. Simple, direct, quick, I like it.

 

TSK

Well, as long as you don't buy a 3rd transmission and toast that one too...

 

What I'm specifically refering to is during close loop mode. The very definition of the close loop is what causes conflicts between the ECM and the FTC. ECM's job is consistently maintain 14.7 AFR which gives you the most effiiciency (mpg) with the least amount of air emissions. ECM performs this taks by monitoring MAF and via Oxygen sensor after combustion.

With a piggy such as FTC, you can modify MAF singal via FTC map. You'll have control for limit amount of time. But down stream, the oxygen sensor knows that values are not true so with that feed back, the ECM will make a correction which will over ride what the feed back from the FTC.

Bottomline of all this is the AFR curve on a dyno. AFR curves for trucks with FTC dynos have a tendency to be rich then leaning out with real curves. While from Dave's dyno with the 7th injecor and AIC, you can see AFR curve is flat at 12AFR from below 3000 rpm to redline. That is how a boosted vehicle is suppose to run. Now trying doing that with a piggy back. 7th injector has its own ECM. TRD spend a lot money with a lot of smart people developing this system.

You can do whatever you what and tweak your map till your blue in the face but it will never be as smooth as a map developed by people that are professionals.

I like everyone else, I bagged on 7th injector when it first came out.

I would also like to added that my experience is with 01 to 04 tacoma only so arguging about how your truck runs so well of SMT is useless. Apples to apples.

 

Right. Search around and you'll see me saying this a lot over the last year.


The AIC is what's doing a lot of the work to make things flat at 12:1, not the native 7th. Pull the AIC out and I think you'll find that the system will run at 14.7:1.


Agreed. I haven't used the SMT directly to make a point, I understand the limitations of a piggyback.


We're on opposite sides and I'd bet that we won't convince one of the other. Thanks for the discussion...

 

Again, I like to reiterate that if piggy backs and bigger injector are the way to go then why are URD's most recently turbo and 1GR supercharger projects using additional injector set ups? Gadget and Brian are smart guys. They are trying to tell us something.