Depends on the car, that is one of those things you will need to dial in with trial and error. The higher it turns on the less methanol you will use in daily driving. The lower the quicker you get the effects.

 

I will be running straight water only and I want it to cool the intake charge when climbing long, steep grades. I've noticed that I can climb most 7,000+ ft elevation passes in 5th at 2 psi of boost or less, so I'm thinking that spraying at 2 psi would be about right.

I'm trying to decide if the Devil's Own Stage 1 kit with a 5 gpm nozzle is the right combo for me.

 

Yes, you can inject it as low as you want. I had mine start at around 1psi but it also comes on quite a bit when doing this compared to higher boost levels.

As long as you don't change the tune or run a smaller pull the stage 1 kit will work fine. The 5gph nozzle should also work well. I run a 7gph on mine while NA and it works well although a little smaller might be ideal.

 

Thanks, that is what I was looking for. I can find the Stage 1 online for $219 while the Stage 2 is $355.

 

The stage 2 is useless anyways. Controller with a checkered past and most importantly no failsafe, which is the whole reason to upgrade past a stage 1.

 

That makes my decision even easier. If I were relying on this as part of my tune, I would get a variable rate controller with fail safe. Because I am not, I can't see paying the extra.

 

With a 5 GPH nozzle, is it possible that the engine will bog if it's triggered at a low RPM like, say 2000 RPMs?

 

I have not had any problems with mine but I also don't generally have it injecting that low. The devils own kit comes with 2 nozzles I would simply ask for a 3gph and a 5gph. Then play around with it and see what your truck likes best.

 

I'm really interested in doing this for my truck, seems like a fairly simple mod with great benefits. I have a 3VZ-E 3.0L in my 91, NOT a 3.4L and of course, it's NA. I do, however, have some questions if you don't mind. Some are legit and some are, I admit, noobish.

1. What would be the benefits for a NA, older 3VZ-E engine? I would not have a controller just looking at the DIY setup (60/40 mix), so a simple on/off would be all I'm running. My truck has 282k miles but the engine is surprisingly clean (just took the top half off recently to find little carbon build-up) considering its age. However, high engine temps are an issue on these, and my engine bay gets stinkin' hot so I know the air I'm pulling in is hot as well.

Also, my engine is not quite so stock anymore. I have a larger 3" Spectre intake with larger VAFM swap from a Supra. I have a fairly new cat and high-flow muffler. Headers are stock though. My truck pulls in more air faster than a stock engine. Also running a bigger coil and Flamethrower injectors for more fuel atomization and flow (about 10% more).

2. What volume nozzle should I run? Performance is nice here but I'm not sure how much my truck can handle. I won't be running 100% meth, or at least if I do it won't be all that often. I suppose the nozzle depends on how I'm going to use it too, so if you have any suggestions if it should be on during cruising speeds let me know. I think I would be fine with that, due to cleaning qualities and lower temps. I only commute 15 min each way but will drive it 2-3 hours at a time when off-roading or camping.

3. Thinking of on/off switches, I'm not sure how where I would put the switch. I hardly ever floor the gas pedal, so not sure how/where I would put it. I don't think I want it to run when cruising (my truck runs at 3200 RPM at 70 MPH), or do I? Seems like if I mount it too far forward on the gas pedal, I risk breaking it if do floor it. Would the throttle body be a better candidate? Or ... is there a way to tap the TPS signal on these older trucks to only fire up the pump at a certain voltage? Looking for the easiest and most reliable route.

4. How does the nozzle stay in the hosing? Is there a nut locking it in from the inside and if yes, any chance of that coming loose and being sucked into the intake... or does it stay on pretty good?

5. Seeing that you have yours on all the time, how much of the meth mixture do you use per tank fillup? 1 gal? How much might you say my application would use?

 

1: The benefits for NA engines is much less that that of boosted engines. Performance gains will really come down to how well the ECU can adjust for the extra octane or if you can retune it.

Better off using it for the steam cleaning effect or to help keep temps down under high loads.

2: nozzle size depends on a lot of factors. If you want to run it during cruise go small so it lasts longer. Something in the 1-2gph range. If you want it during WOT only then larger can work well, something in the 4-5gph range.

Running it during cruise can be nice, particularly if towing/under heavy load. Once again the exact effects will depend on the ECU.

3: The TB would be the best place, they have switches with longer rods that bend to allow for overtravel without damage if that is what you want. You could tap the TPS signal but that would need a separate controller/circuit to work. Depends on your skill level if it is worth it

4: I really recommend just getting a proper outside mount meth injection nozzle. I have never personally used the cheap nozzles mentioned here as I didn't feel it was worth skimping on personally so you are kinda on your own there.

5: How much I use totally depends on how I drive the truck. If I go easy I can get a tank on less then a gallon. If I drive it hard I go go through 3-4 gallons per tank.

Honestly for the 3vz not sure it is worth the money. The engine is not worth spending a dime past basic maintenance IMO. The 5vz is not worth spending any money on anything short of boost to be fair.

 

Thanks for the response. I understand enough about my truck's ECU that it only adjusts long-term A/F changes. When I change the air/fuel ratio in any way, it takes a couple of startups before it completely adjusts. So I think I like the idea then of running it long-term on a lower gpm.

These trucks have overheating issues and can burn out head gaskets and cylinder 6 so the cooling ability is a welcome change. I also get spark knock at anything past stock timing so this would help. I realize that it's not going to make huge improvements, but even a 5 hp gain would be noteworthy for the 3VZ-E, especially if it brings gas savings over the long-term to pay it off (the ECU will lean out the injectors because of the extra meth/water, just a matter of how much).

I can't swap a 3.4L, too expensive so I'm trying to make due with what I have. Even if there's no performance increase (playing devil's advocate here), do you think the extra cooling and higher MPG's is worth it?

 

The cooling may or may not be worth it, that is up to you. The MPG gains will be minimal with that ECU I am guessing as it doesn't have much freedom to adjust things to compensate for the extra octane. Hard to say what you would see MPG wise.

 

aa1911 is running this in his 3.0 And seems to like it. Maybe message for some details. I still want to do this as well but the on/off switch is my sticking point as well. I really need to get some pictures of a set up and maybe some step by step for the switch. Any help would be great

 

Search around for nitrous WOT/trigger switches, that should give you some ideas.

You can use other methods they just cost more and by the time you do that would be better off just getting a pre-made kit. It is honestly not even really worth putting together a kit yourself now. When I made this the cheapest kits were around $300 which you could beat by a large margin.

Now days you can get pre-made kits for under $200 on ebay with proper meth injection parts/nozzles. Just doesn't make much sense to try to save those few bucks and spend all that extra time doing it yourself anymore IMO.

 

One more question. Anybody know if someone using this setup on an old land cruiser???? My 91 with a 3fe inline 6 could use some more power and definitely needs better gas mileage. Would this help???

 

Doubtful that a 91 would have electronics to take full advantage of it much like your 3vz and even my 5vz. It would help like with any car but newer cars can take much more advantage of it due to better ECU's. Other brands can take even more advantage since they can be retuned.

 

I guess i am wondering what electronics you are referring too. I almost prefer obd I vehicles over obd II. Much easier to work on IMO. All i would need is on off switch to activate the setup. It would not be as fancy as the progressive kit. I guess I am really looking for a good long term cleaning agent to make this iron pig of an engine last forever, as well as some more power and more mileage. However minimal they may be. Is alcohol injection what I am looking for?

 

Yes, the meth injection will indeed clean the engine over the long term. Short term you can run a large nozzle to clean it out quicker then step down to a smaller one for longer term cleaning so you don't use as much water/fluid.

The older electronics can't/won't adjust for the added octane of the water injection which is where MPG gains come from. New ECU's on the other hand will do this, some more then others. MPG is effected by 2 main factors.

Your right foot
The tune

These make up the great majority of the MPG your car gets. A relatively minor amount is due to the engine itself in comparison. Newer cars have much better tunes and are much more adaptable to things like meth injection. For example on the 3vz it is doubtful it will advance the timing much at all. On my 5vz it will advance it a little and on newer cars it can advance it a whole lot to take full advantage.

Then you have the AFR's, modern ECU's will adjust the AFR's much better then older ones. On other cars you can even retune them to really improve things.

If you want it mainly for the cleaning aspects then go for it, if you are looking for big noticable gains in HP/MPG it is very doubtful that you will get your moneys worth.

 

On the 3vze. The ait is in the afm. Bottom line is the ecu will notknow that its getting cooler air so no timing advance. Not shure about the longevity of running even straight water through the afm...

 

You don't want to spray before the AFR/MAF. It will screw up all the readings and could even damage the sensors. Now on MAP based cars with seprate IAT sensors you want it before the IAT.

Honestly though the timing would be advanced due to the ECU detecting no knock and advancing the timing accordingly.